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Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« on: June 02, 2010, 02:25:18 AM »
http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/jun/01/behind-scenes-bandons-old-macdonald/

For a partial explanation of how Old Macdonald came about, here's my column with photos from last week's Golfweek. It's a Doak-Urbina design/routing, but Geortge Bahto, Karol Olson and myself had the opportunity to have some input. Bahto did the bulk of the consulting work, even traveling with Doak to the UK to see original holes that Macdonald was inspired by. In any case, I thought that with all the attention on the course and its opening this week it could not hurt to have additional material. (Brad Klein)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 02:34:02 AM »
Brad:

We missed having you here today.  It was a very good day for golf ... gray and cool, with an unexpected southwesterly wind so that holes like 4 and 10 played like par-5's, while #11 played quite short.

Somebody shot 65 from the green tees (with bogeys at 8 and 12!).  Somebody also had an ace on #12 ... and I cannot believe he didn't have to buy drinks for everyone at the Puffin.

Mostly, everybody just had fun.  I had great fun even though I only hit one shot all day, trying to show somebody how to putt it around the Road bunker from twenty yards out in front of the green.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 06:11:33 AM »


'The hope, as someone put it during one of the many walk-throughs, was that at the end of a round, a player would walk off the 18th hole, turn to fellow golfers and simply say, “Hey, that was fun. I wonder who that Macdonald guy was.”'

...or you may get "why the hell did they name this after a farmer in a child's song?"

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 03:00:39 PM »
Brad,

Thanks for the post. I don't know how I overlooked it until now. I, and I presume Melvyn also, thank you for the statement "That means a firm commitment to the spirit of golf as a vigorous outdoor adventure."

 
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 03:52:16 PM »
By consensus at the outset, the design team wasn’t worried about the scrutiny of architecture scholars or course raters. Instead, the idea quickly became to create something that would hold the interest of the everyday golfer.

What a novel concept.... ;)   Be interesting to see where and when this bad boy will end up on Golf Digest's Ranking.....

Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Cirba

Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 04:17:03 PM »
Without having seen OM other than pics, I'm willing to bet right now that the course not only doesn't make Golf Digest's Top 100, but that it will be lucky to sniff the Top 10 in the State of Oregon.

Somehow, somewhere, they won't find enough "resistance to scoring"

Despite that sad reality, I'm rather sure I'll love it anyway.

Jim Colton

Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 04:48:01 PM »
Will Brad's involvement make OM ineligible for the Golfweek rating?

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 05:28:27 PM »
Without having seen OM other than pics, I'm willing to bet right now that the course not only doesn't make Golf Digest's Top 100, but that it will be lucky to sniff the Top 10 in the State of Oregon.

Somehow, somewhere, they won't find enough "resistance to scoring"

Despite that sad reality, I'm rather sure I'll love it anyway.

The odds of that happening are low. The resort has by all accounts 3 top 10 courses in the state already, and it sounds like Old Mac is up there with the rest of them. Bandon Trails is the lowest ranked in the top 100 at #80. PD and BD are 14 and 33 respectively. BT likely suffers because it doesn't have the views of the others. Old Mac supposedly won't be hurt by this because it provides coastal views throughout.

I just don't see OM being left in the cold.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 05:39:32 PM »
Without having seen OM other than pics, I'm willing to bet right now that the course not only doesn't make Golf Digest's Top 100, but that it will be lucky to sniff the Top 10 in the State of Oregon.

Somehow, somewhere, they won't find enough "resistance to scoring"

Despite that sad reality, I'm rather sure I'll love it anyway.

Mike,

Why do say OM will be found lacking in "resistance to scoring"?


I don't know anything about what the raters look for. Do you think the very large green sizes make it seem easier to the raters?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 05:45:42 PM »
Will Brad's involvement make OM ineligible for the Golfweek rating?

i dont believe so
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 07:53:40 PM »
Just got back from OM and boy was that FUN!!! I will have more later, but here are some behind the scenes photos:

The very first group going out. The first tee shot was a cold topped one that dribbled about 50 yards to the right :)



Here is Mayhugh telling Doak how much he hated Pacific Dunes while Tim Bert was begging for the secret to finally break 90 at Pac Dune.



You will be happy to know GCA folks closed down the course on the opening day with 8 of us coming down the 18th fairway in complete dark at 9:30 PM after playing 54 holes.

Michael Robin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 08:04:23 PM »
Mike Cirba -

Resistence to Scoring will not be an issue at OM. I think it is the most challenging of all the courses in Bandon. There is difficulty in all the par3s, all of the par 5s and stout to ferocious par 4s at Hogs Back, Bottle, Road and Alps. 

Matt Harrison

Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 10:14:46 PM »
Thanks for posting this article.  It is amazing to think about how the resort has developed over the years.  I was lucky enough to hear about the possibilities of the project while caddying at The Dunes Club in the early/mid 90s.  And, I remember visiting in 2002 and driving through the land beyond the driving range and east of Pacific Dunes...can't wait to see how it turned out.

Mike Jansen

Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 10:36:19 PM »
Brad,

I had the pleasure of visiting the Old Mac construction site in Feb '08 when I drove up to Bandon to meet with Jim Urbina and interview for an internship.  As I met Jim after his dinner that first night, I was introduced to a whole cast of people I would soon learn are BIG news in the world of golf and golf course architecture, and I was honored to be there, star struck even. The following day from breakfast until sundown, I spent walking and driving throughout Old Mac with Jim, Tom Doak and the whole Renaissance crew, George Bahto, Mike Keiser and yourself.  I still remember it like it was yesterday, it has been one the greatest experiences of my life.

There was a line from Tom that you loved when he replied to a question with "when most people zig, I zag."  It was the beginning of knocking down that huge sand dune, and we were all a bit concerned with how often the Coast Guard was flying overhead.  And talking and brainstorming with Mr. Keiser  about possible logos for the course.  One of his first ideas was if CB had a dog, who they would model the logo after.

Man, what a trip.  I cannot wait to get back there in August and re-live those moments.  Thank You.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 05:59:48 PM by Mike Jansen »

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 01:16:30 AM »
I was under the impression that a DVD was being put together on the making of OM.

Does anyone have any info. on where / when it will be available ?

Thanks

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2010, 01:51:22 AM »
I was under the impression that a DVD was being put together on the making of OM.

Does anyone have any info. on where / when it will be available ?

Thanks

Mike Robin has been working on this and actually screened part of it for Bandon guests on June 1.  I didn't get to see the whole hour as I was out playing in the near darkness, but from what I saw it's going to be amazing. 




Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2010, 01:58:18 AM »

Mike Robin has been working on this and actually screened part of it for Bandon guests on June 1.  I didn't get to see the whole hour as I was out playing in the near darkness, but from what I saw it's going to be amazing. 


What does that guy know about putting things together on cinema? Sheesh...

(looking forward to it, tremendously!)

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 06:41:24 AM »
Mike J...........Do you possibly mean FEB 08, instead of 06?  That would be the more correct timeline.  If I remember correctly construction started on the eastside in the fall of 07, on the eastside holes.  The wet weather that fall, and heavy soils on that side of the ridge nudged the construction to the pure sand of the westside. 
Just checkin, for accuracy's sake.
The first 10 holes were seeded by June 08, the last eight by May 09, with a beautifully long growin/development after that.

Tom
the pres

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2010, 12:27:01 PM »
Old Macdonald is far more than a golf course that pays tribute to Charles Blair Macdonald.  In building this course, Mike Keiser and the design team seem destined to be evangelists themselves.  Their message – there’s nothing wrong with having fun playing golf.  Over the next months and years, they will likely win a lot of converts. 

This team has created the most compelling modern course that I have seen (I have not seen Sand Hills).  Incredibly wide fairways, wild contours, and massive greens give the course a scale that is hard to appreciate from photos.  The shaping is outstanding and makes it hard to believe that Old Macdonald just opened. 

There has already been a good bit of discussion about the routing.  Every hole is a new assault on the senses, yet it all seems to flow together perfectly.  There are strategies to ponder on every shot, but that doesn’t mean you have to think at all.  Swing away and see where that gets you!  Embrace the ground game and find out what fun on the golf course is about.  One of the great joys in playing links golf is watching the ball follow the ground, and Old Macdonald really delivers. When the “bigness” of OM is combined with the effects of wind, the course will play differently every day – no one is going to get bored. 

If CBM were able to visit and play Old Macdonald, I believe he would pay it the ultimate tribute – he would go back to NGLA and tweak some things.  This doesn’t mean that I believe OM is a better course than NGLA (it’s not).  But just as CBM felt like he could improve on the concepts that he used to build an “ideal course,” he would also recognize the achievement of others.  I think CBM would surely appreciate what was accomplished in the building of this course and be pushed to make his masterwork even better.

Old Macdonald does not feel like a copy of any CBM course.  It easily stands on its own merits as a course.  Macdonald’s work may have provided the inspiration to use specific strategies, but the course on the ground is plenty unique.

The opening day experience was one I felt really fortunate to be a part of.  Pretty nice to be greeted on the first tee by the owner and the designers.  Throughout the day they spent time with players as they started out, watched some play on the course, and talked to groups as they came in.  Everyone seemed genuinely interested in our impressions of the course and I cannot imagine their being disappointed.  I also had a number of encounters with other players while I was there, and nearly everyone seemed to have the same sort of goofy “can you believe this?” grin that I did. 

We finished up our second round as the last tee time group went out.  Mike Keiser was standing on the first tee, and we asked about going back out for a third trip around.  He seemed just as enthusiastic as we were.  Our group finished in the dark, and even after 54 holes that day I think all of us wished for just a few more hours of daylight. 

I suspect many more people are out spreading the word:  It’s OK to have fun playing golf.  If you don’t think so, there’s this course at Bandon that you simply must play.

A brilliant achievement. 

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2010, 04:46:38 PM »
John, very eloquently put. I agree wholeheartedly.

Now, where is your review of Pacific Dunes? I am really looking forward to that more than the OM review... :)

Here are a couple of more pics from this week.



From left to right: Rob Riggs, Ed Getka, George Bahto, Norm Riggs (Rob's dad)



From left to right: John Mayhugh, Tim Bert, Rob Miller

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 08:21:17 PM »
This doesn’t mean that I believe OM is a better course than NGLA (it’s not). 

John

I know of your passion for NGLA - what makes it "better" for you ?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 08:28:33 PM »
Without having seen OM other than pics, I'm willing to bet right now that the course not only doesn't make Golf Digest's Top 100, but that it will be lucky to sniff the Top 10 in the State of Oregon.

Somehow, somewhere, they won't find enough "resistance to scoring"

Despite that sad reality, I'm rather sure I'll love it anyway.

My guess is the team at Bandon will treat the raters with respect(as the do with all their guests) and OM will get the rating it deserves.
(which from all I'm hearing is a top 100 +)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 09:01:10 PM »
John Mayhugh,

An incredbly well-written piece! I have a buddy who has been to Bandon 7 times, but has not yet seen Old Macdonald. He asked me what I thought, so I sent him your words.

And you hit the nail on head: my foursome all had goofy grins!

Rob Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 09:33:00 PM »
I would be SHOCKED if Old Macdonald didn't make the top 100, and would not be surprised if it came in somewhere around where Pacific Dunes is ranked today.  Yes, that high (or, low).   

I'm having some trouble separating the course from the experience, but the more I think about it, the hype is well-deserved.   

The course was in outstanding condition on the first day of play.  Seriously, outstanding condition.  The bunkering and attention to detail on the course is something that many may fail to appreciate on their first time around but when you find yourself in an unusual spot, like right on the Cape hole, you can appreciate how much work was put into the course. 

I talked to quite a few coming off of the course and the comments were overwhelmingly positive.  You might expect that on opening day, but there were a few who said it was the best golf course they have ever played.  I heard only two negative comments - one of the size of the greens and one on the routing (?) but they were said after some positive comments. 

Slightly OT- thanks to all for the warm welcome.  This was my first GCA trip and going in I was unsure what to expect but it's hard to imagine having more fun than I did the past few days.  Thanks. 


Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A behind the scenes account of Old Macdonald
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2010, 05:23:37 AM »
Old Macdonald is far more than a golf course that pays tribute to Charles Blair Macdonald.  In building this course, Mike Keiser and the design team seem destined to be evangelists themselves.  Their message – there’s nothing wrong with having fun playing golf.  Over the next months and years, they will likely win a lot of converts. 

This team has created the most compelling modern course that I have seen (I have not seen Sand Hills).  Incredibly wide fairways, wild contours, and massive greens give the course a scale that is hard to appreciate from photos.  The shaping is outstanding and makes it hard to believe that Old Macdonald just opened. 

There has already been a good bit of discussion about the routing.  Every hole is a new assault on the senses, yet it all seems to flow together perfectly.  There are strategies to ponder on every shot, but that doesn’t mean you have to think at all.  Swing away and see where that gets you!  Embrace the ground game and find out what fun on the golf course is about.  One of the great joys in playing links golf is watching the ball follow the ground, and Old Macdonald really delivers. When the “bigness” of OM is combined with the effects of wind, the course will play differently every day – no one is going to get bored. 

If CBM were able to visit and play Old Macdonald, I believe he would pay it the ultimate tribute – he would go back to NGLA and tweak some things.  This doesn’t mean that I believe OM is a better course than NGLA (it’s not).  But just as CBM felt like he could improve on the concepts that he used to build an “ideal course,” he would also recognize the achievement of others.  I think CBM would surely appreciate what was accomplished in the building of this course and be pushed to make his masterwork even better.

Old Macdonald does not feel like a copy of any CBM course.  It easily stands on its own merits as a course.  Macdonald’s work may have provided the inspiration to use specific strategies, but the course on the ground is plenty unique.

The opening day experience was one I felt really fortunate to be a part of.  Pretty nice to be greeted on the first tee by the owner and the designers.  Throughout the day they spent time with players as they started out, watched some play on the course, and talked to groups as they came in.  Everyone seemed genuinely interested in our impressions of the course and I cannot imagine their being disappointed.  I also had a number of encounters with other players while I was there, and nearly everyone seemed to have the same sort of goofy “can you believe this?” grin that I did. 

We finished up our second round as the last tee time group went out.  Mike Keiser was standing on the first tee, and we asked about going back out for a third trip around.  He seemed just as enthusiastic as we were.  Our group finished in the dark, and even after 54 holes that day I think all of us wished for just a few more hours of daylight. 

I suspect many more people are out spreading the word:  It’s OK to have fun playing golf.  If you don’t think so, there’s this course at Bandon that you simply must play.

A brilliant achievement. 


This was great fun to read John.  Thanks for taking the time to post what you really thought.  So, what's it like knowing that, after all these years, CBM is alive and well and living out his days in Bandon, Oregon?  (I hope you brought your copy of Evangelist for George Bahto to sign.)