[GeoffreyC]

Dave

I don't know Medinah as I've said but I do play WFW on occasion and I've seen the pros play there in person.  WFW has an amazing set of greens along with the deep bunkers protecting them.  This creates in addition to the shotmaking problems a need for a great short game and putting. We're not talking just good here but we're talking elite.  Is Medinah in that same league? (serious question not a put down as I've not been to Medinah).

[Matt_Ward]

shivas:

You missed your calling -- you should audition for a role in "The Practice."  

Geoff more than adequately explained the nature of what makes WF / West so great. The greens are wrapped behind an array of unique and super bunker patterns. My comments came from the simple fact that after having played WF / West a good bit of time over the last 30 years the approach shot is an absolute must given the level of detailing that Tillie provided to Winged Foot. I also credit the club in taking down an assortment of trees that simply had choked the architectural qualities that Tilie provided.

The greens at WF / West have an array of rolls and contours and when they are at their most slipperest they present the most vexing of conditions -- I can remember as a 17-year-old when Jack Nicklaus three-putted the first hole in the first round of the '74 Open when he had a 28 footer for birdie and his second putt was even longer than the first.

As Geoff mentioned try short siding yourself on the West and see how "easy" recovery becomes. When you stand any tee on the West you just "know" that getting the ball a good ways down the fairway is only as important as setting up the approach. There have been plenty of bombers who've played WF / West and many have had crash landings.

Shivas, I'm a golfer first -- I don't base my course assessments on such narrow-minded nonsense as to where the courses are located. You must be confusing me with some others who post here on GCA regarding "the east coast golfing establishment -- in fact, I didn't know I was even allowed to join such an "establishment." since my roots are on the public side of the fence.

P.S. For the record -- I do like Medinah but you and I will not be able to convince the other that a #13 position on GD's listings is appropriate. I concede a top 50 position but that's as far as I go.

[tlavin]

I am no expert, but I am a member of Olympia Fields and played with Brad Klein at Olympia recently.  We walked up to the fifteenth green and he asked, somewhat rhetorically, "Does anybody really believe that Medinah is better than this place???"  The answer is "yes", plenty of people do, but I really think Olympia is a more interesting golf course.  I absolutely love and respect Medinah.  I think it's a beautiful place and I think it has a lot of hard holes, but the oak trees have removed many of the tee-shot options that used to exist on the golf course.  Do I think Medinah should be in the "teens" on the Top 100.  Probably not, but it's still a terrific course that can host a major, so it should be up there somewhere high.

[Nigel_Walton]

Mr. Lavin, Will you be doing us the privilege of posting on any topic other than Olympia Fields? Given Mr. Mucci's proclivity for posting almost exclusively on NGLA, we are attempting to parcel out all courses to knowledgeable individuals.

[Paul Richards]

Nigel:

Why are you taking a shot at Mr. Lavin?  Not only is a fine member of OFCC, but he made a hole-in-one there on Sunday at the famed 13th!

So when you ask about someone who 'knows' a course, Mr. Lavin certainly qualifies!

[Gary_Smith]

I know this is becoming an old thread, but I'm bringing it back because the June issue of Golf has a very interesting story on how the USGA views some of the Chicago courses such as Cog Hill (questionable drainage, in the USGA view) and Medinah. In the article, David Fay says something to the effect that Medinah is "not a tried and trued championship course."

I'm sure Medinah's membership is going to very, very pleased with Mr. Fay.    

[Patrick_Mucci]

Nigel Walton,

If you think that I post, almost exclusively, about NGLA, then you must be very new to this site.

There are an abundant number of courses that I've posted on, including but not limited to Atlantic, GCGC, The Bridge,
Sandpines, Seminole, Merion, Boca Rio, Atlantic City CC, Shadow Creek, Yale, Maidstone, Shinnecock, Friar's Head, Westhampton, The Creek, Plainfield, Alpine, Newport, NGLA, Wannamoisett, The Country Club, Timaquana, Pine Tree, Pine Valley, ANGC, Pinehurst # 2, Caves Valley, etc., etc..

In the limited time that I've tuned in to this site, I can't recall any threads that you've started or posts that you've made with respect to any course.  But, perhaps I missed them.
Could you list the threads you intitiated, regarding any course and/or architectural topics ?  
I probably missed them when I was traveling.

Thanks.

P.S.  With respect to NGLA, for me, the course is an ongoing study in architectural genius.  
I'm sorry that you find it so distasteful to hear about one of the great architectural feats in golf.

[Brad Klein]

Well thank you Mr. Lavin for dragging me into the mud with the rest of you.

For those of you who do not know him, Mr. Terrence J. Lavin is - and I quote from his business card that sits in front of my nose here - "board of governors, grounds chairman" of Olympia Fields Country Club. In that capacity he has been working closely with Mark Mungeam on the restoration of the North Course, work that has been taking place for a decade and that started with Mr. Lavin's predecessor.

I just got through writing a detailed review of OFCC-North. It will appear in "Golfweek" in two weeks. All I can tell you is that I strove to be fair and unbiased, and I had to look very hard to find anything wrong with the layout. About all I could come up with is that the US Open routing of holes juggles the sequence in ways that upset the rhythm of the course, and that the member sequence allows one fully to appreciate the genius of the layout.

OFCC-North combines elements of the best of Shoreacres with the best of the Medinah - Butler National - parkland feel. The green surfaces are astonishingly strong, as is the bunkering. I kept thinking that at no. 52 on our Classical list, it is underappreciated, and that at no 29, on the same list, Medinah No. 3 is not as compelling to play. And I base this is on the improved Medinah No. 3 that Rees Jones just worked on, which I've gotten to see before and after.

I didn't see Olympia Fields before, but I can fgure out what work was done and it has helped very much to bring out the strengths of the fairways, bunkers and greens. I think it will pleasantly surprise a lot of people on TV and at the Open this year.

[Paul Richards]

Brad:

Well said.

[tlavin]

With all of these "defense lawyers", I feel like O.J.

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