Crenshaw dissapointed in course setup

[Mike Nuzzo]

Randy:

Interesting analsysis -- but you left out -- inadvertently or deliberately, that Ben chooses to work only a very select number of projects. Team Nicklaus doesn't do that and as a result with so many balls up in the air it's entirely likely there may be a drop-off in terms of quantity being pursued so hard. Place Ben with the same workload that Jack had has and I would wonder if the qualities that his fan base cites would remain at the same level. Or flip it around the other way -- give Jack just one or two designs to handle without any other distraction and I think his final product would be no less stellar in my mind.

Matt
That is the same argument that Jack had in comparison to Tiger.
Jack was a better golfer because he had a family.

We'll see how Mr. Nicklaus does with just a few projects anyway.
Never mind the fact that he doesn't route the course....

[Dean Stokes]

The course looks good but those striped fairways are hurting my eyes.......it seems to me that a course that is meant to play f+f would not need to stripe their fairways like that. The fairways should have no stripes at all.

I talked to one of the caddies there this week who told me the greens are rock hard but the surrounds are too wet which means you can't run the ball up the way that it was designed and when you pitch on the greens with a mid to long iron you go over the back. Seems like someone missed the point of the design ideas there.

[Ben Sims]

The course looks good but those striped fairways are hurting my eyes.......it seems to me that a course that is meant to play f+f would not need to stripe their fairways like that. The fairways should have no stripes at all.

I talked to one of the caddies there this week who told me the greens are rock hard but the surrounds are too wet which means you can't run the ball up the way that it was designed and when you pitch on the greens with a mid to long iron you go over the back. Seems like someone missed the point of the design ideas there.

Dean,

Gotta disagree with you here.  I don't care one iota what the mowing pattern of the fairway is.  What I do care about is the obvious departure from architectural intention by introducing an intermediate and primary cut of rough to this course.  Stripes, centerline, checked, I don't care.  Just as long as they try to keep the intent of the architecture by getting the fairway back out to the width that C&C intended.

And as far as firm conditions, maybe you're not watching?  I'm watching Boom Boom put on a clinic on how to run shots onto a green and use contour.

[Dean Stokes]

I just think the stripes look out of place on this golf course and I think it detracts from the course. I also think there are many areas of the course that look like they would have been better without high rough so the balls could have actually ran into the hazards.

As far as the wet surrounds go.....I am just relaying what two caddies have now told me.

[Tim Martin]

The course looks good but those striped fairways are hurting my eyes.......it seems to me that a course that is meant to play f+f would not need to stripe their fairways like that. The fairways should have no stripes at all.

I talked to one of the caddies there this week who told me the greens are rock hard but the surrounds are too wet which means you can't run the ball up the way that it was designed and when you pitch on the greens with a mid to long iron you go over the back. Seems like someone missed the point of the design ideas there.

Dean,

Gotta disagree with you here.  I don't care one iota what the mowing pattern of the fairway is.  What I do care about is the obvious departure from architectural intention by introducing an intermediate and primary cut of rough to this course.  Stripes, centerline, checked, I don't care.  Just as long as they try to keep the intent of the architecture by getting the fairway back out to the width that C&C intended.

And as far as firm conditions, maybe you're not watching?  I'm watching Boom Boom put on a clinic on how to run shots onto a green and use contour.

Ben-I agree in that all types of shots were being played-high,low,checkers and runners. Additionally the amount of players that chose putters off the green instead of chipping was very noticeable. The back to back par fives on the inward nine also provided for plenty of excitement. Colorado Golf Club proved more than worthy of a major championship.

[Cliff Hamm]

Watched the seniors largely because of the course...16 was a blast to watch them hit to the left of the green and watch it roll on...

[Mac Plumart]

I watched it for the course as well.  I was quite impressed.

[Doug Wright]

I've played the course two times. I didn't get down there for the event but watched a good bit on TV. I thought the course did very well, especially as a first time venue. There were a ton of options around the greens, which is what C&C wanted. The short holes like the 8th and 14th had a lot of interest and options. I was most impressed with the 16th, which I really didn't like in my two playings. I thought the right fairway on this split fairway driving hole was too narrow and the green too severe. But it played really well from what I saw; Lehman chose the right fairway Saturday and Sunday, Couples and most others I saw played the left. However, the approach to 16 was way too soft--not sure why that was the case. The Redan effect of the 17th green also worked well. Not sold on the 18th either playing or watching. It seems pretty bland for a finisher though Frostie and Freddie screwed it up in the playoff. The 9th hole is a much better hole IMO. 

[Doug Wright]

One other thing--the greens were considerably slower for the tournament than when I've played there and as I understand is typically the case at CGC. Probably a function of the wind and not wanting to embarrass the senior pros, which easliy could have happened with faster green speeds on this unfamiliar course. A similar situation to the Broadmoor for the Senior Open a couple years back.

[Gary Slatter]

The course looks good but those striped fairways are hurting my eyes.......it seems to me that a course that is meant to play f+f would not need to stripe their fairways like that. The fairways should have no stripes at all.

I talked to one of the caddies there this week who told me the greens are rock hard but the surrounds are too wet which means you can't run the ball up the way that it was designed and when you pitch on the greens with a mid to long iron you go over the back. Seems like someone missed the point of the design ideas there.

Have to agree, the stripes made watching difficult at times.  So 80's.

[Kirk Gill]

One other thing--the greens were considerably slower for the tournament than when I've played there and as I understand is typically the case at CGC. Probably a function of the wind and not wanting to embarrass the senior pros, which easliy could have happened with faster green speeds on this unfamiliar course. A similar situation to the Broadmoor for the Senior Open a couple years back.

Really interesting perspective, Doug. I know on Friday we were watching player after player leave flatter putts short.

[David_Tepper]

Article in the new issue of GolfWorld on Crenshaw, Colorado GC, etc.:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2010-06/fields-bunker-lede-0607

[Matthew Petersen]

My understanding is the course will play host to the Solheim Cup in 2013. The PGA had to lvoe this event and if it works well for that event, it seems more wonderful events could be in its future.

My only concern--and this seems odd given the listed yardage--is length. You could see how short the course played for Freddy. Regular pros could really blast away. With that said, that might make it an even better match player/Ryder Cup type venue.

[Phil McDade]

"My only concern--and this seems odd given the listed yardage--is length."

Yet the winning score was -7, which is less than two birdies per round on average for the best players that week. It suggests the course and set-up did a pretty decent job in other respects in holding off a birdie/eagle bonanza in a major.

[Gene Greco]

Bill Coore quoted from the Golf World article:

"It's perceived that someone can come out, wave their arms, have a few pictures taken and it magically happens.

It doesn't.

You've got to be willing to get dirty, to spend time on the site, to learn how things actually happen."


Who are the tour pros who get "dirty?"

[RJ_Daley]

Gene, it seems by many accounts, Lehman roughed it out in Valentine.  It will be interesting to see the interpretations of the land there by comparisons.  And, all accounts report Swampy Marsh was on scene to a great extent at Sutton Bay and now Prairie. 

I'd be interested to know if anyone can identify any pros whom they feel gets any kind of short shrift on this idea of a pro getting out there in the dirt and really working as a design/help build pro-archie.  I'm not aware of any other professional golfers with that sort of 'in the dirt' reputation.  Anyone...?

[Will MacEwen]

Bill Coore quoted from the Golf World article:

"It's perceived that someone can come out, wave their arms, have a few pictures taken and it magically happens.

It doesn't.

You've got to be willing to get dirty, to spend time on the site, to learn how things actually happen."


Who are the tour pros who get "dirty?"

It's only one (very good) course, but from everything I have heard Dick Zokol was very involved in Sagebrush. 

[Bill_McBride]

"My only concern--and this seems odd given the listed yardage--is length."

Yet the winning score was -7, which is less than two birdies per round on average for the best players that week. It suggests the course and set-up did a pretty decent job in other respects in holding off a birdie/eagle bonanza in a major.

...other than Freddy's back to back eagles in round 4!

[McCloskey]

Does Mr. Crenshaw route his courses?   Mr. Nicklaus apparently gets negative points for not doing routings, and Mr. Crenshaw doesn't, so that must mean that he routes his courses.   I thought that Mr. Coore was the expert router. So how does that work?