[Brian Joines]

This was just announced yesterday and is exciting for the Benton Harbor area. I have yet to see the course but hope to make it out there soon. I think Ken Fry wrote up a review last fall when the first 9 holes were open. Has anyone else made it out there yet?

I don't believe all 18 holes are open yet but that's supposed to happen in the next month or so.

[PCCraig]

This was just announced yesterday and is exciting for the Benton Harbor area. I have yet to see the course but hope to make it out there soon. I think Ken Fry wrote up a review last fall when the first 9 holes were open. Has anyone else made it out there yet?

I don't believe all 18 holes are open yet but that's supposed to happen in the next month or so.

Wow...that's a big announcement! I'm surprised they gave them two in three years, however that should be a great boost to an area that needs the revenues.

[George Freeman]

Great for the area, but the same course 2 of 3 years?  Really...?  Is that normal for the Senior Tour? 

As for the course, I'll hopefully get over to see it this summer.

[jonathan_becker]

Great for the area, but the same course 2 of 3 years?  Really...?  Is that normal for the Senior Tour? 

As for the course, I'll hopefully get over to see it this summer.

George,

Didn't PGA National have the event for a million years in a row?  Hale Irwin won them all I think. 

[jonathan_becker]

George,

Here you go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_PGA_Championship

[PCCraig]

Great for the area, but the same course 2 of 3 years?  Really...?  Is that normal for the Senior Tour? 

As for the course, I'll hopefully get over to see it this summer.

George,

Didn't PGA National have the event for a million years in a row?  Hale Irwin won them all I think. 

It did...but for the past 10 years they have held it at some very good venues...


Year Venue Location
2010 Colorado Golf Club Denver, Colorado
2009 Canterbury Golf Club Beachwood, Ohio
2008 Oak Hill Country Club Rochester, New York
2007 Kiawah Island Golf Resort, Ocean Course Kiawah Island, South Carolina
2006 Oak Tree Golf Club Edmond, Oklahoma
2005 Laurel Valley Golf Club Ligonier, Pennsylvania
2004 Valhalla Golf Club Louisville, Kentucky
2003 Aronimink Golf Club Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
2002 Firestone Country Club Akron, Ohio
2001 The Ridgewood Country Club Paramus, New Jersey

[Chris_Blakely]

Grand opening for full 18 holes is August 10, 2010

http://www.harborshoresgolf.com/layout10.asp?id=213&page=6664

[Brian Joines]

The website also says it will open for limited preview play in July.

http://www.harborshoresresort.com/golf/index.cfm

[Mike Hendren]

Jack could learn a few things from Mr. Kaiser.

Bogey

[PCCraig]

According to the press release Whirlpool is now a sponsor of the tournament. Looks like those sponsorship dollars have brought the tournament to it's hometown and it's urban project that is Harbor Shores.

[Tom_Doak]

Jack could learn a few things from Mr. Kaiser.

Bogey

Bogey:  How?  Mr. Keiser doesn't understand how golf shots are played at the highest level.

[JESII]

CBM did...


oops, sorry wrong thread...

[Mike Hendren]

Tom,

I meant from a marketing standpoint.  Seems like half the treehouse has or is about to play OM while few, if any are beating a path to Harbor Shores.  There is more at work here than a better mouse-trap, though I must confess that I IM'd my boy Tim Bert a few minutes ago expressing my jealousy over his imminent trip to Bandon and predicting that OM will indeed be fantastic - not that I'd want that broadcast on this site

Mike

[Steve Salmen]

Apologies for taking this a bit off topic.  I clicked Chris's link to Wikipedia and the Senior PGA Championship.  I noticed the venue for the 1937-38 events.  Is this correct? 

[PCCraig]

Apologies for taking this a bit off topic.  I clicked Chris's link to Wikipedia and the Senior PGA Championship.  I noticed the venue for the 1937-38 events.  Is this correct? 

I believe it is...

[Ken Fry]

Northeastern Indiana and Southwest Michigan have had some wonderful announcements lately regarding the Harbor Shores project.

The grand opening round on August 10th will be played by Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer  Johnny Miller and Tom Watson.  I've never heard of such a thing for a course opening (especially from "competing" architects).

The announcement of the Sr. PGA Championship for 2012 and 2014 was another shot of wonderful news.

The course is quite interesting.  Much of the land had been tainted by industrial use and years of neglect as industry left Benton Harbor.  By all accounts, the transformation has been a huge success.  The dunes area backing a local park that sparked much of the published controversy has settled down.  My initial reaction to the course was very positive.  I think for the average player it will be quite hard.  There is a wonderful mixture of terrain along with sandy areas, wooded areas and wetlands.  The nine holes that were open when I played were very good.  I toured the holes opening this summer and I believe they will be even better.

As I mentioned in prior threads, I'm waiting to hear more reaction about the greens.  For those that have played Lost Dunes, you know Tom Doak has previously stated those are the wildest greens he has built.  I thoroughly enjoy the greens at Lost Dunes and feel they are quite playable despite the challenges.  Harbor Shores' greens have a tremendous amount of internal contouring.  I've never been to Dove Mountain, but I think the green complexes at each location are very similar.  Over the last few years the PGA Tour pros have been very critical of Dove Mountain's greens.  The Harbor Shores greens are going to be too hard in my opinion for the higher handicap players or anyone with a bit of the yips.

The 10th hole is a reachable par 5 with one of the most unique green complexes I've ever seen.  To call it multi-tiered is a massive understatement.  There is a large drop in the middle of the green that is on such a severe pitch I don't know how they got grass to grow on it nor am I sure how they successfully mow it.

My only serious gripe about Harbor Shores is there's really no way to walk it during normal play.  During the "preview rounds" rides between holes could be a mile long.  Even when all the holes open, there will be some massive treks to get from one green to the next tee.

I'll look forward to hearing more feedback as people make there way to Benton Harbor this summer.

Ken

[George Freeman]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. 

OT - Do you know if the opening round with the four greats will be open to the public?  It would be incredible to get to watch all of them together.  Not sure how many times we will get a chance like that again...

[Mark Provenzano]

The website also says it will open for limited preview play in July.

http://www.harborshoresresort.com/golf/index.cfm

I believe that's July 2009...looks like you can make a tee time for today or any day this summer.

[Ken Fry]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. 

OT - Do you know if the opening round with the four greats will be open to the public?  It would be incredible to get to watch all of them together.  Not sure how many times we will get a chance like that again...

George,

I just went to their website and secured tickets for the 18 hole "Skins" game and a Q&A session that evening.

http://www.harborshoreschampions.com/

The round will be $50 per ticket for spectators and the Q&A session will be $25 per ticket.  Quite a unique opportunity.

Ken

[Brian Joines]

The website also says it will open for limited preview play in July.

http://www.harborshoresresort.com/golf/index.cfm

I believe that's July 2009...looks like you can make a tee time for today or any day this summer.

Indeed it is. However, I called the pro shop and was told that all 18 holes will be available for play starting on July 1st. Tee times can be made starting on June 17th.

[Brian Joines]

Ken,

Thanks for the info. 

OT - Do you know if the opening round with the four greats will be open to the public?  It would be incredible to get to watch all of them together.  Not sure how many times we will get a chance like that again...

George,

I just went to their website and secured tickets for the 18 hole "Skins" game and a Q&A session that evening.

http://www.harborshoreschampions.com/

The round will be $50 per ticket for spectators and the Q&A session will be $25 per ticket.  Quite a unique opportunity.

Ken

Thanks for that link to http://www.harborshoreschampions.com/  On the bottom right of the page there is a link to "view course gallery." Those are the best pictures I've seen of the course. Is picture #8 of the tenth green that you described? At first glance, I thought the picture was of two greens that butt up to one another. A closer look shows one WILD green.

[Matt Harrison]

This is really exciting for the community!!

On the greens at Harbor Shores, my friends who have played Harbor Shores a few times and Lost Dunes multiple times agree with Ken's comments- #4 at Lost Dunes is relatively tame compared to #10 at Harbor Shores.

I agree with Ken that it is unfortunate that you cannot walk the course, but considering the property involved, there may not have been a lot they could do.  This may have been a more difficult routing challenge than Lost Dunes.  Similar issues involved (major road, wetlands, dunes that couldn't be touched, etc), but maybe larger issues.

[Ken Fry]

Thanks for that link to http://www.harborshoreschampions.com/  On the bottom right of the page there is a link to "view course gallery." Those are the best pictures I've seen of the course. Is picture #8 of the tenth green that you described? At first glance, I thought the picture was of two greens that butt up to one another. A closer look shows one WILD green.

The 7th and 8th photos in the gallery Brian references are the 10th taken from behind the green.  The drop in the center of the green is about 10 feet if my memory is correct.  I stopped counting all the different plateaus.

[Tom_Doak]

Ken / Matt:

As I mentioned at Lost Dunes, the shaper who built those greens (Jerame Miller) is now an associate of Jack's, and I think it's likely he had something to do with the greens at Harbor Shores if they are as wild as you say.

I am shocked that Jack has built a green more severe than the 4th at Lost Dunes.  If I hadn't seen a couple of the greens at Dismal River, I wouldn't even believe you; but it is funny to hear that those guys are trying to compete with us in the arena of difficult greens.

[Ken Fry]

Tom,

People can say whatever they want about #4 green at Lost Dunes.  It's wild but fun.  You can still get to each part of that green even if you put yourself in a tough position, you just have to be open to be creative.  Even if you take away the huge drop in the middle of the green, there are so many plateaus on the top level and bottom level of #10 at Harbor Shores you don't have to miss the pin by much to have a really tough putt.  Just to get the ball to stop on many of the plateaus is going to be hard.

In contrast, the green on hole #11 is great.  Referencing again the gallery Brian mentions earlier, the 11th is shown in photos 1, 5 and 6.

There seems to be such a fine line between being creative and provocative and having designs that will be too tough.  In your experience, how do you know when you've reached the limit with your contouring??

Ken

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