[Phil McDade]

Philip:

Set-up includes pin positions, no? My argument last year -- here's the thread: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40214.0/ -- was that Davis' set-up at the Black depended too much on weather conditions, and when the weather turned soggy, the players had a field day.

Tiger's performance at Pebble was anomalous -- 15 strokes better than the field, -12 when the best anyone else could do was +3, record-breaking in nearly every way possible. Glover's winning score of -4 was in keeping with US Open winning scores since 1975.

[Phil_the_Author]

Phil,

That was my exact point... set-up DOES incl;ude hole locations. Because of the severe weather a choice was made the week of the Open, not before to use easier hole locations because they wanted it to be fair for all. If it had been sunny with F&F conditions they would have used much tougher hole locations and then everyone would hav been screaming "unfair!"

Tiger's performance was the direct result of when he played. The luck of his draw took him out of the severe winds that plagued all in the afternoons. he went out early THursday. When the wind picked up in the early afternoon it slowed play down so much that the round had to be finished Friday morning. As a result, his afternoon round was delayed so long that he was only able to play a few holes and it had to be finished on Saturday morning when the wind was once again down.

This was an Open, just as in 2009, where the weather played havoc with the set-up and the results; in this case Tiger's extreme margin of victory. Both are anomolous to your analysis in my opinion...

[Phil McDade]

Philip:

Why should Tiger be the standard by which set-up efforts are evaluated? He got the back luck of the draw re. weather -- happens all the time in golf. I don't think his particular performance is a full reflection of the set-up.

The first two days of the set-up at BBlack allowed drives to stay in the expanded and wider-than-normal fairways, allowed players to spin shots out of the first cut of rough, allowed players using fairway woods/hybrids for approach shots to easily keep those shots on greens, and allowed easier putting because of eased-up pin positions. Not the fearsome Black I'd hope for at the Open, and record-low scores those first two days.

Sure, the field came back to par -- usually does at the Open, as pin positions and weather toughened on the weekend.

[JC Jones]

What do they use to mow over the cliffs?

JC, they use fly mowers to mow over the cliffs.  The fly mowers are mowers with no wheels which basically hover over the ground while cutting.  A lot of course use fly mowers around the greens where there is difficult bunkering to mow with a hand mower.

do they use those mowers on the edges of the cliffs at Bandon too?  I'm thinking particularly of the 13th green at Pacific.

[Carl Rogers]

Let's think about players for a while ...

I am a Hale Irwin fan.

But hasn't the typical traditional USGA set-up favored his style of play, by excluding so many others?  Would the golf world's opinion of him be as high without those wins on those particular set-ups?

Did he ever come close at the Masters?

[Tim Martin]

Let's think about players for a while ...

I am a Hale Irwin fan.

But hasn't the typical traditional USGA set-up favored his style of play, by excluding so many others?  Would the golf world's opinion of him be as high without those wins on those particular set-ups?

Did he ever come close at the Masters?

As I fan too of Hale Irwin the answer to your second question would be a resounding no. The 3 Opens are what defines Irwin who was the ultimate grinder and a great hard course player. He had 4th place finishes in the 1974 and 1975 Masters.

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