Sebonack's Flirt !

[Ben Sims]

Matt,

Word had it that Michelle Wie shot a 76 at Oakmont on Tuesday in preparation for the Women's Open.  She apparently played from the blue tees which were hanging out at 6500yds or so.  I played with two members who said the green speeds were as slow as they had seen them in a couple years (rolling 10-11 ft). Take that for what you wish.  

I haven't seen Sebonack.  But I would think that with the average LPGA tour drive being somewhere in the 243yd range so far for 2010, then the thread about average drive distance x 28 would equate to 6804yds!!

I think Tom just spit out his diet Coke....

[Jud_T]

Tom Doak- U.S. Open Doctor.  Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Matt_Ward]

Ben:

It's all well and good to talk about things in theory -- I have been on hand for countless Women Opens over the last 30 years and frankly the play has been anything but exciting or even first rate.

Throw in just a bit of rough and the women cannot escape. Couple that with Oakmont greens -- even at a slower pace -- and when you miss targets there you have your hands full in getting up and down. The men do it because they are the best at it -- the women are not.

Classic courses also require high soft approaches -- women don't play that shot well -- although MW can likely do that better than her peers.

There's a part in me that say have the women play 6,800 yards and get the greens to 12 or moe with 2-3 inch rough on the sides. I'll take a bet that says with such conditions you'd be lucky to have more than 10 players capable in breaking 300 for four rounds.
 

[JWL]

I agree with TD about excessive green speeds for the Women's Open.   I would like to see nothing more than 10.5 and I think that would certainly reward the players for playing under the hole and make all putts above or pin high plenty difficult.   12-13 will not present the course properly imho.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

It's not just about the green speeds -- it also about the total length needed. Playing the course at a max of 6,500 yards -- varying certain holes on different days -- is more than enough. The wind can howl at certain times at Sebonack and also have approahces to greens that are set above the fairway in a few instances.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

The two people who are on here that know the probabilities and likely options are Tom and Mark. The rest of us are just typing. Thank you two for filling in some blanks reguarding this great course.

[Matt_Ward]

Tiger:

Really?

I've seen plenty of the women's game to know how they might fare at different venues. The idea that women can handle a layout at 6,800 yards - as Mark alluded to -- and that green speeds could be in the 12 or more vicinity -- coupled with rough, varying wind speeds and the need to hit high soft approaches to a few of the targets -- makes me believe that dialing down the green speeds and having a total length no more than 6,500 yards is more than sufficient to both challenge the best female players and at the same time provide for a championship that doesn't overwhelm the bulk of the field.

[Matt_Cohn]

Tom Doak- U.S. Open Doctor.  Discuss amongst yourselves.

Jud,

He would be the "Doaktor".

Just saying.

[Tom_Doak]

Tiger:

I would opine that Jim Lipe (JWL) knows the course a little better than Matt, also.


Jud:

Open Doctor?  No possible way ... I am not nearly trustworthy enough for the USGA guys to work with.  Plus, Rees Jones will have to retire first ... although if he is reading your posts he might just keel over.

[JWL]

TD....you are too kind!
Cheers

Can't wait to figure out how to get to OM.   Pics look great!