[Cliff Walston]

Long time lurker, finally taking the plunge......

I must have lurked on GCA for five years and this has been an invaluable source of information in my journey to better understanding of the game and the courses that make it great.  I feel that I now am fairly welled educated on the subject and have a good appreciation for the subtleties of what makes for good architecture.  

But after just returning from Ireland, I am absolutely baffled about Portmarnock.  Most consider it a must play and one of Ireland's best, but I found it rather pedestrian and nothing special.  For sure, the facilities and history are tremendous, but the course itself didn’t do much for me.  Perhaps it was the conditioning, which was rather poor and included a temporary green.  But I am clearly missing something.  

By contrast, I absolutely loved the Islands.  The towering dunes, the blind tee shot, the challenging par three 13th, the ridiculously narrow 14th, and the amazingly gracious and friendly members all made it the highlight of the trip.  Although considered a very good course, I don’t think most would put it on the level of Portmarnock.  

What did I miss about Portmarnock that makes it one of Ireland’s best???  I am baffled…..

[Sean_A]

W

I too felt rather non-energized by Portmarnock and this is much the same how I feel about Muirfield.  Both display very competent architecture that probably requires several more plays on my part - something I am most definitely not willing to do.  I know at Portmarnock I would like to have seen some up n' over stuff rather than so much between the dunes/features stuff.  For me, and this is despite some great bunkers, Muirfield is too far ruled by its bunkering.  There isn't a happy balance with the land imo.  Like at Portmarnock, I get the feeling of sameness throughout much of the round.  That is fine for a not so heralded £45 course, but a problem if we are talking about £175 giant killer. 

Ciao   

[mike_malone]

 Much depends on when we play these courses. Portmarnock was the second links course I ever played after The European Club a couple of days before. So, I was just formulating my ideas of what links golf was. TEC was rougher but thrilling. So, when I encountered the subtlety at Portmarnock I was impressed. The rough was like none other that I have experienced yet. It was more like wheat than scrub. The two par threes on the back cemented my ideas of links golf par threes. I returned a couple of years later and felt the same way; it is sublime.

   The Island could hardly be a different place. I played there a couple of years after Portmarnock with visits to all of the major  Irish links courses behind me. I loved the place . The dunes were a feature of the play and again I found the par threes to be diverse and fun.

[Shane Wright]

Walston -

There has been some dialogue on here in the past about Portmarnock.  I am in the same camp as you.  I was completely baffled by it, the hype, the ranking, etc etc.  I have reviewed the course in my head over and over trying to see if I have missed something.  This is what I have came up with:

1. boring tee box locations
2. 3-4 utterly snoozer holes
3. an uninteresting site
4. way overpriced


I did enjoy 4-5 of the holes, but definitely had Portmarnock ranked at the bottom of our Ireland trip of 10 courses. 

What course did you play the day before?  That might have had an effect, we had played 36 at RCD the day before.


I've ripped the course on here before and actually thought that maybe we played the wrong course.  But after having a couple of years to think about it, I would definitely give it one more shot, really enjoyed a few of the holes, and count my blessings that i was able to spend time in Ireland playing many of the best courses.

Shane

[Shane Wright]

And one other thing -

No disrespect to Sean, but in my opinion, Muirfield and Portmarnock should not be used in the same sentence.  Muirifield is a fabulous experience and a wonderful golf course.  It is also a flattish sight like Portmarnock.  Colt/Morris did an incredible job with it.  The turf is some of the best, the routing is second to almost none, bunkering awesome, greens are true, and no two holes are even close to the same.  I walked away from one round at Muirfield remembering every single hole and many of the details.  This to me means about as much as anything. 

[Cliff Walston]

Thanks for the replies.  At least I am not alone in my thinking and that makes me feel better.  Shane, to answer your question, we played the Islands the day before.  It was a quick trip to Dublin (a surprise bachelor party trip courtesy of two great friends) so we were only in Ireland for three days.  Played the K Club, Islands, and then Portmarnock thinking we were building up in a crescendo of quality courses to an amazing finish.  In contrast to the day before, it was a disappointment given all the hype.  Ranking all the courses we have played across the pond in the last two years (TOC, Carnoustie, Kingsbarn, Castle, and Crail), Portmarnock would rank near the bottom.  But given the hype, we would have thought it would challenge the best.     

[Tom Dunne]

I've played The Island, but not Portmarnock. I always recommend The Island to anyone visiting Dublin--it's just plain fun. The first nine features eight consecutive par-fours among some of the tallest dunes in Ireland, the second nine takes you out to the estuary for excellent holes like 13 and picturesque views of the harbor. I'll always remember standing on the 14th tee and pulling driver because I just couldn't believe what my eyes were telling me--there had to be more fairway out there somewhere. Of course, there isn't, and even though I birdied the hole I walked off the green laughing at the total insanity of hitting driver on that tee. It's amazing to think that back in the day that was the first hole on the course, too.

The Island gives a warm welcome even by Irish standards, and you can get there from center-city Dublin on the DART (plus a 5-minute cab ride). I just love the place.

John Dunn wrote a fun story about his day out there a few years ago:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/golf-a-day-on-the-island/1

PS: Walston, it's just "The Island"

[Cliff Walston]

Tom, thanks for the correction.  A few too many pints of Guiness as the bachelor probably cost me that brain cell.   

[Tom Dunne]

Tom, thanks for the correction.  A few too many pints of Guiness as the bachelor probably cost me that brain cell.  

Thus proving you did the trip the right way. Cheers/slainte.  

[Tony_Muldoon]

Bumping this in the hope that Portmarnock's newest member see's this and put's you all straight.


Access whores start editing now .


PS I should add I've played neither course but am looking forward to both of them.

[John Mayhugh]

The Island is more fun and scenic.  Still, I think Portmarnock is an extremely good course.  The dunes could have been used more creatively in the routing (go over instead of between sometimes), but there are lots of twists and turns keeping one adjusting to the wind.  This is a course that demands wind to be exciting.  I absolutely loved the bunkering.  The grass surrounding the bunkers is pretty much fairway height and balls funnel in there quite easily.  Greenside bunkers are nestled tight up to the greens and slightly missed shots will easily funnel into the bunkers.  Many of the greens are also built up above fairway height, so if you don't run off into a bunker you just end up missing the green in a different way.

The magnetic nature of the bunkers means you have to approach greens from the proper angles or risk real trouble.  To get to the proper angles in the fairways, you often will need to risk playing near other bunkers. None of this is easy when the wind is blowing!  I found Portmarnock to require a lot of thought and skill.  A very solid course.

[Tom_Doak]

Portmarnock's reputation as the best course in Ireland (or one of the best) dates back to when it was Ireland's one true championship course, and to when the club had 5x as much money as any other Irish links to spend on maintenance.  (It's always been a paragon of beautiful links turf, in my experience.)  It surely isn't based on the opinions of American visitors, who prefer the grandeur of Ballybunion, Lahinch, Portrush and County Down.

[Mark Bourgeois]

"Portmarnock is not only Ireland's finest course but one of the four best tests of golf in the British Isles. The majority of Portmarnock's holes are tucked in the folds between the dunes or separated by sharp ridges of rough. What makes the course fearsome, aside from its length (7,093 yards), is the combination of heavy swirling winds and the formidable rough—a thick growth of seaside grass, creeping willow, ferns, yarrow and countless wild rosebushes." -- Herbert Warren Wind.

[Carl Nichols]

The Island is more fun and scenic.  Still, I think Portmarnock is an extremely good course.  The dunes could have been used more creatively in the routing (go over instead of between sometimes), but there are lots of twists and turns keeping one adjusting to the wind.  This is a course that demands wind to be exciting.  I absolutely loved the bunkering.  The grass surrounding the bunkers is pretty much fairway height and balls funnel in there quite easily.  Greenside bunkers are nestled tight up to the greens and slightly missed shots will easily funnel into the bunkers.  Many of the greens are also built up above fairway height, so if you don't run off into a bunker you just end up missing the green in a different way.

The magnetic nature of the bunkers means you have to approach greens from the proper angles or risk real trouble.  To get to the proper angles in the fairways, you often will need to risk playing near other bunkers. None of this is easy when the wind is blowing!  I found Portmarnock to require a lot of thought and skill.  A very solid course.

I agree with everything John said.  If I had ten rounds between the Island and Portmarnock, I'd probably split them 5/5 because they are both solid but are also so different, and having that variety is enough for me to not want to lean one way or the other. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Cliff,

I was there on Monday and Tuesday. The conditioning is not the best at the moment because there has been a long period of dry, cold weather meaning that the growth is about a month behind. That will change soon. In addition, it is currently poa seeding season.... However, it is playing incredibly firm and fast and will appeal to those who think the browner the better... The temporary green is the 1st because of a whole new green complex on the water's edge (including the removal of all trees behind it)

The Island is undoubtedly dramatic and a whole lot of fun to play. But it is a very penal course.

Portmarnock on the other hand is certainly less dramatic. But there is a good amount of subtlety there that adds to the experience. I played the 3rd nine on both days. I think that the 6th is perhaps the best hole on the property. If passing through, you really should try all 27...

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Island is more fun and scenic.  Still, I think Portmarnock is an extremely good course.  The dunes could have been used more creatively in the routing (go over instead of between sometimes)

John, this is something that Sean also states... But it's no Birkdale... There are only two major dune valleys on the property... The Long Valley holds the 4th hole and The Big Valley holds the 6th hole... Other than this, you will see holes that are routed over dunes (the 5th), played to green sites raised and nestled in Dunes (12th, 14th, yellow 6th) and some good grade level holes.... I don't think the course is lacking in inspiration when it comes to routing... In fact, I'd argue quite the opposite...

However, if you want the best hole in the property that was never built, it would be a long two-shot hole played from the 15th tee over tumbling ground to the distant 6th green on the yellow nine, right along the main sea ridge...

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thought I might add back to this as I just played both in quick succession again:

The Island has a great deal of varying topography and as such generates a great deal of pleasurable challenges and shots to the eye; in an aesthetic sense. More so than at Portmarnock. In addition, there is more contour at The Island also.

But varying topography and contour does not necessarily relate to shot values of which there are a great many more challenges and options at Portmarnock…. Whereas The Island demands intriguing tee-shots, the correct answer more-often than not lies down the centre of the fairway. Portmarnock frequently asks for shots to be executed to the best side, through its sweeping doglegs, its bunker placements and its genuinely firm & fast conditioning. Moreover, Portmarnock requires the ground to be used more than any other course I know in Ireland. Sure, The Island has more contour round its greens but it is of the type that might create options primarily from the missed approach as opposed to being used for the approach itself. At The Island, unsung heroes like the 11th and 17th are the holes that have most requirement to bounce one in. At Portmarnock, whether it be to the grade level greens or the Dornoch-style raised table-tops, it is very rare that you want the ball’s first bounce to be on the green proper. Whether it be fairway or green surface, it is the subtle undulations and the angles that direct the play from tee to hole.

Portmarnock gets mixed press on this website but for me, it represents the epitome of links golf. I love both golf courses for different reasons but clearer now than ever before, I think there is a divide in terms of class between them.

There is no more pleasurable golf experience than a crisp day on the links and walking round Portmarnock is the best antidote I know to clear any cobwebs from the depths.

Any one travelling over to Dublin is more than welcome to send me a PM and I’d be more than happy to show them round should timing permit.

[mike_malone]

I am glad that I still agree with what I said 3 1/2 years ago that's not true for much what I say

[Tommy Williamsen]

I really enjoy the Island but it is a different species than Portmarnock.  The Island is pure fun and offers some fun options off the tee on many of the holes.  Portmanock is a beast of a course.  Drive it crooked and you are I'm for a long day.  For a championship it is a great test, but I couldn't play it every day.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I really enjoy the Island but it is a different species than Portmarnock.  The Island is pure fun and offers some fun options off the tee on many of the holes.  Portmanock is a beast of a course.  Drive it crooked and you are I'm for a long day.  For a championship it is a great test, but I couldn't play it every day.

Funny you say that, Tommy... For me it is the other way around.

Also shows that conditioning and upkeep can play a huge part in our perceptions. The width and playability at Portmarnock today is in a different ball park to 10 years ago.

But as with all links courses, get them in July & August and they can be tough - worst two months to play on a links

[Thomas Dai]

But as with all links courses, get them in July & August and they can be tough - worst two months to play on a links

Very perceptive.
All the best.

[Tony_Muldoon]

But as with all links courses, get them in July & August and they can be tough - worst two months to play on a links

Very perceptive.
All the best.

And which months are the most popular with overseas visitors and holiday golfers?
Admittedly the wind seems to be lighter on warm summer days (settled high pressure?).

When I joined a links course I thought it would all be summer golf by the seaside.   
But now give a cooler day with a good wind and the rough down a bit.  Heaven.

[Martin Toal]

I have never played Portmarnock, but I must confess that I have always quite liked its neighbours Royal Dublin and Portmarnock Links (the Langer course at the hotel of the same name). The former I liked from the first play and the latter has grown on me after a number of plays.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I have never played Portmarnock, but I must confess that I have always quite liked its neighbours Royal Dublin and Portmarnock Links (the Langer course at the hotel of the same name). The former I liked from the first play and the latter has grown on me after a number of plays.

Martin,

The super at Portmarnock Links is called Fintan Brennan - He has done a tremendous job in widening fairways, run-offs, clearing vegetation and bringing on the conditioning. This has had a big effect on how much I enjoy the course as well.

Gary Johnstone has been at Portmarnock (old) for about 7 or 8 years now... He is doing equally great work.

It is an easy target on this website to say "conditioning" doesn't matter and I more than most rate it down on my list of priorities when visiting a golf course. But when it comes to promoting firm and fast and when it crosses over in to work on the playability, we shouldn't underestimate what a big role it has...

[Brent Hutto]

I agree with Ally that it's a bit disingenuous for the Treehouse to constantly harp upon how the mindless masses are obsessed with "conditioning" while at the same time praising the sort of "conditions" that for 99% of the golf courses in the world require nigh perfect collaboration between the Hand of God (weather) and the Hand of Man (conditioning).

I'll go one step farther. Give me a routing and a set of greens that are even a tiny bit better than barely functional and then get the fairways bouncing and the green running. That's a good day of golf. Take the finest course in the world and have it wet and soft and I will not enjoy it (unless maybe the views are spectacular). Conditioning is probably 90% of the difference between the most fun and least fun days I've ever had on a golf course.

I also agree with Tony that "a summer spent on the golf course" ain't all it's cracked up to be. My trips to the UK so far have all been either mid-June or in September. Not entirely with an eye toward weather and course conditions but that has been a factor. And certainly at home here in the USA I've had at least one August where I didn't even set foot on a golf course. Can't say that about any of my Februaries or Novembers, so far. I don't know if there's any place on the planet where August is prime golf season.

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