News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« on: May 25, 2010, 02:55:05 PM »
I apologize if this has already been posted.

A friend sent this to me today... it is a letter from Coore & Crenshaw concerning their work on Pinehurst #2.

It says it all. Can't wait to see the "new" #2.

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Brent Hutto

Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 03:09:48 PM »
I had not seen it, thanks for posting that Mike.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 03:13:34 PM »
I can't wait to see what they did either. It sounds a lot more fun than the course I played some 15 years ago.
Mr Hurricane

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 03:19:15 PM »
there's an item on G Shack's site today about this with a drawing of 1 hole
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 03:24:31 PM »
Holes 13 & 14


jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 03:38:06 PM »
I'm just so glad I didn't pay the $405 day-of-play rate this past fall for my first round at #2. 

I'm highly anticipating the final product and I think I made the wise decision to wait.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 03:52:12 PM »
The before and after drawings above are interesting - the after looks daunting but you can take a moment and see that the fairway will be about 25% wider!

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 04:02:51 PM »
Wow...this is FANTASTIC stuff! I can't wait to play there again once the work is "complete" in 2012 or so.
H.P.S.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 04:06:03 PM »
Desert golf in N.C., without the snakes and cacti.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mike Sweeney


Jon Heise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 04:20:29 PM »
Im pretty happy I got to play it in '07, then Ill get a chance once C&C finish.  It will be fun to compare and contrast...
I still like Greywalls better.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 04:36:18 PM »
The before and after drawings above are interesting - the after looks daunting but you can take a moment and see that the fairway will be about 25% wider!

But Bill, the fairway still doesn't reach most of the bunkers!
 :(
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 04:44:52 PM »
Hope to see the course move back up the rankings...
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 04:46:21 PM »
The before and after drawings above are interesting - the after looks daunting but you can take a moment and see that the fairway will be about 25% wider!

But Bill, the fairway still doesn't reach most of the bunkers!
 :(

But there isn't thick rough to keep balls short of the bunkers.  That's the point.  That hard pan / pine needle mix is faster than fairway in most cases.

If you haven't played a course set up like that, you've missed out!

Brent Hutto

Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 04:49:13 PM »
Get in the Bunker!!!

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2010, 04:59:41 PM »
The photo is from 1939.  Not long after they grassed in the greens for the 1936 PGA.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 05:01:35 PM by Chris Buie »

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2010, 05:00:05 PM »
I was in Pinehurst last week and saw the changes. The fairways are already at the width they will be in the future. They are more like 50-75% wider - not 25% wider. The fairways do in fact go up to the bunkers from what I could tell driving around the course. The course i drying out and much of the rough has been stripped out on holes 10-14. The key to all of this will be this quote from the letter:

"The course will play more as it was originally intended—firm and fast and maintained with significantly less water than before."

I am skeptical the resort will do actually do this until I play the course. I've played hundreds upon hundreds of rounds on #2 over the last 20 years when my parents became members. Since the first US Open the course conditioning has pretty much stunk on 3 to 4 visits per year with the course always being way over watered. I wonder if this means the will stop over seeding. While there last week one of the pros told us that Paul Jett, the head greens keeper, has been fired.


What gets me in all of this is that after the first U.S. Open Pinehurst rebuilt #4 and went the way of Fazio/Jones (I don't remember which one actually did the redesign). However, at the time the hot trend in architecture was Sand Hills, Bandon Dunes and the natural look. Now that C&C are building the Dormie Club in Pinehurst's back yard it seems that the resort's owners may have awakened to the trend that hard core golfers desire. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Jason Elwell

Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2010, 05:10:41 PM »
I would love to know how Pinehurst's numbers have been affected since Bandon opened. Nothing hits home like money, and if the folks at Pinehurst have seen a decline (or relative decline) in revenue because people prefer to go to the middle of nowhere Oregon to golf, then they really may have woken up.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2010, 05:21:40 PM »
I don't know about everybody else, but I think 1939 version looks helluva more interesting that the new version.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2010, 06:16:11 PM »
It doesn't appear they plan to flash the bunkers.

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2010, 06:19:06 PM »
Richard, I am certain the C&C will do a fantastic job.  It won't be exactly like Ross but it will play the way it is supposed to play.  You can be sure those guys will capture the spirit and strategy of the original course.
A small note on the old photo.  Notice how thinly wooded the areas are.  Don't you think it makes for a much more interesting experience having the chance to bend a shot out of the woods around a few trees rather than just chopping out sideways onto the fairway.  I think courses are much more interesting and fun that way.  You have to create shots rather than just making pretty much the same swing all the time.  
I'm thinking of my buddies here because of course my driver doesn't really stray.  ;)

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2010, 06:22:11 PM »
Get in the Bunker!!!

Thanks for that Brent, I actually laughed out loud.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2010, 07:01:49 PM »
The before and after drawings above are interesting - the after looks daunting but you can take a moment and see that the fairway will be about 25% wider!

Bill
C&C didn't create that image - Pinehurst did
C&C works from ground level
The rough areas will be playable - sometimes
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2010, 08:56:30 PM »
The before and after drawings above are interesting - the after looks daunting but you can take a moment and see that the fairway will be about 25% wider!

Bill
C&C didn't create that image - Pinehurst did
C&C works from ground level
The rough areas will be playable - sometimes

I was also riffing on Ben's comment that the fairways will be wider.

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coore & Crenshaw Letter On Pinehurst Changes
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2010, 09:14:33 PM »
Echoing what Mike said - don't think that what you see in that computer rendering will look anything like what will be in the ground.