[JR Potts]

If you have the stones to ask to play without a member's introduction, you should have the stones to pay whatever costs are presented to you.  

I think this statement says it best....even in light of your explanation.  And finally, as I don't wish to belabor this point, your analogy of unwittingly crushing an ant while walking and seeking out a tee time at a private club, arriving at said club to be accommodated and then bailing when you get the bill doesn't quite work for me....or likely for anyone.

If you're okay with it, I guess that's all that matters. but don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of invitations to play from some on this board.

[Alex Miller]

Sorry, but I have to say Lost Canyons, where the golf pro exclaimed how they were in the top 100 and my worst, Sand Pines!  The number 1 golf course of the year, and it is man made and terrible!  The course could hav ben so good, but no and then the insult of the pond for the finishing holes.  It still makes me shake my head!
Thanks for letting me get that out,
Chris

What was Lost Canyons ever in the top 100 of?

I think it's not the worst place in the world where you can play 36 for $130, especially in the public golf bermuda triangle of LA county.

Take the 118 down the road and you have a much worse overrated (or overcharging) course, Tierra Rejada. I played it with a guy who said he'd rather pay the 100 bucks there than pay half at Rustic!

Also, Vk, no you didn't say it was Fishers, but you didn't have to either. How many Raynor courses can you name on an island only reachable by a ferry? I've never even played a Raynor course let alone Fishers but I knew in 2 seconds which club you were talking about.

[Mike_Young]

VK....
are you saying if you read the following:
"And once at at a famous Raynor course you have to access by ferry, when i was playing gratis, but they wanted to gouge my companion for $250.  He was disappointed but would have paid, but I wouldn't let him do it even though we were stuck on an island and instead we hit balls on the range, 1/4 mile towards the exit, caught the next ferry two hours later and played Golf at the lovely Shennecossett at about 2:15pm."
you would not have had the same thoughts....are you saying they "gouged" your partner....I hear your side but it was not presented in that manner...
I have always felt that if one were to ask to play a course whether as a caddy, a golf pro, an architect a supt or whatever..then he should be prepared to pay the fee...if they offer to comp then that should be accepted but not expected.....and I think most work that way...I don't think industry people expect nearly as much as raters....

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I tend to find in most general terms expensive Nichlaus and Norman courses to have the greatest chance of being highly overrated. Of course half the courses Matt places out west each summer are in the club after he fawns over them like they all have stripper poles manned with ladies so to speak on the 18th green.

[Adam Clayman]

Tricks. I have an affinity for blindness just not in combo with water hazards. The hole in question would be fine with the added 5' of fairway height, if the target wasn't surronded on 3 sides with water. The entire course was littered with unrecoverable situations and the 9th hole was no exception. You called the opening two holes on the back nine as "getting there". Where I thought the par 3 11th was the best hole on property BECAUSE it appeared natural the way the fair green and green seamlessly transitioned. The holes were predominately pedestrian with the hand of man evident nearly constantly. Mediocre at best is how I felt about AH's effort.

[V. Kmetz]

Mike,

You're absolutely right.  that verb "gouged" was an ill-manifested, vitriolic choice in my post and colored it more than was intended.

And now, enough has been said for my part...

back to log out and lurking for a few holes

cheers

vk

  

[Ronald Montesano]

Adam,

I'll disagree with you over the term "pedestrian" when it comes to the Links nine...I'm confident that a blind draw of 25 GCA regulars would find 2 of those holes pedestrian at worst, with the other 7 being considered heroic, charming and inspired.

The hand of man...is evident at Merion (dug out of a quarry) Country Club of Buffalo (dug out of a quarry) and many other courses.  In fact, the hand of man is seldom absent when it comes to golf.  Many choose to don their rose glasses and submit to denial, but golf courses were created by mankind.  Topography by nature, golf courses by mankind.

I'm not certain which first green is surrounded on three sides by water...it's not the Quarry nor the Preserve nines, so you must be incorrectly recalling the first at the Links.  The 7th green backs up to the first at Links and water hardly comes into play, except as a visual.  Remember that there are a road and houses between that green and the lake.

I was blown away by the links nine, as I found it to be a well-designed yet not overly-long half course.  With the exception of #9, which is a disaster, the nine gets my vote as top-notch.  If there were only some way to incorporate #9 Quarry into the Links and eliminate #9 Links, we'd have a most consistent nine.

If it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.  If you have a quarry for your golf course, your course is going to look like a links...nope that's not it.  Wait for it...a heathland....nope, that's not it...keep waiting...A QUARRY COURSE !!!!!!  Honestly, it's inane to suggest or expect otherwise.  It's a fair run of holes with two natural par threes (don't forget the 8th hole, the one that runs down to the lake) and a bunch of others.  Unlike #9 Links, there isn't a hole that far-fetched, although #6 comes close.  The fairways are wide, the greens are large enough to receive a variety of shots and the course plays as a memorable resort course.

Since I didn't get around the Preserve, it very well might wreak of forced, inconceivable negotiations.  I'll reserve judgment until I return to Petoskey.

[Brian Cenci]

From a classic course perspective I think a good percentage of the Golfweek top 100 could be seen as over-rated.  What are the concensus courses and what are the courses in a battle with god knows how many others not ranked?  As an example I could pick Rolling Green & Point O'Woods and ask what the heck these courses have which elevate them to top 100?  Nice courses for sure, but so what, there are plenty of nice courses about.  Oakland Hills is imo way over-rated though I think it belongs somehwere in the top 100.  But remember, when I speak of this I mean in terms of courses I prefer.  I don't know if one course is better than another and I don't really care.  There are relatively few courses which we can say blow us away and then the rest of the very good courses are much of a muchness and down to preferences - whatever those preferences may be.  Often times it could be aesthetic stuff like cart paths, or course set up, or fairway lines or trees or rough which bug us slightly and take away from the experience we had hoped for.  So preferences play such a huge role that it sort of bothers me when guys talk in terms of pure architecture when I and everyone else knows this is total bullshit for all but the very best courses.  I just wish folks would admit it and then tell us their hangups when they offer an opinion.

Ciao
 

I definetly disagree with you on Point OWoods.  I really liked the course.  As far as Oakland Hills, I tend to agree with you though.

[Brian Cenci]

Pinehurst #2.  For th life of me, I could find little "wow" factor with it.  I have played many courses for a forth of the price or  less, that were more interesting and fun.   There are many fine courses in the Sandhills region, I would not even put #2 in the top 5. 

A close second is Cuscowilla.  Not  a bad course at all, but again lacked any "Wow" factor for me, and for the price I felt totally ripped off.

I agree....while I do like The Deuce, I played it a few years ago and said Pine Needles was a better course and nearly had my head taken off.

[JC Jones]

Adam,

I'll disagree with you over the term "pedestrian" when it comes to the Links nine...I'm confident that a blind draw of 25 GCA regulars would find 2 of those holes pedestrian at worst, with the other 7 being considered heroic, charming and inspired.

The hand of man...is evident at Merion (dug out of a quarry) Country Club of Buffalo (dug out of a quarry) and many other courses.  In fact, the hand of man is seldom absent when it comes to golf.  Many choose to don their rose glasses and submit to denial, but golf courses were created by mankind.  Topography by nature, golf courses by mankind.

I'm not certain which first green is surrounded on three sides by water...it's not the Quarry nor the Preserve nines, so you must be incorrectly recalling the first at the Links.  The 7th green backs up to the first at Links and water hardly comes into play, except as a visual.  Remember that there are a road and houses between that green and the lake.

I was blown away by the links nine, as I found it to be a well-designed yet not overly-long half course.  With the exception of #9, which is a disaster, the nine gets my vote as top-notch.  If there were only some way to incorporate #9 Quarry into the Links and eliminate #9 Links, we'd have a most consistent nine.

If it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.  If you have a quarry for your golf course, your course is going to look like a links...nope that's not it.  Wait for it...a heathland....nope, that's not it...keep waiting...A QUARRY COURSE !!!!!!  Honestly, it's inane to suggest or expect otherwise.  It's a fair run of holes with two natural par threes (don't forget the 8th hole, the one that runs down to the lake) and a bunch of others.  Unlike #9 Links, there isn't a hole that far-fetched, although #6 comes close.  The fairways are wide, the greens are large enough to receive a variety of shots and the course plays as a memorable resort course.

Since I didn't get around the Preserve, it very well might wreak of forced, inconceivable negotiations.  I'll reserve judgment until I return to Petoskey.

Ron,

Have you played Merion?

When you return to Petoskey, do so in the summer time.  I'm 5 minutes down the road from Bay Harbor and we'll tee it up there, together.

[Jim Franklin]

Lakota Canyon.

[John Kavanaugh]

Lakota Canyon.

I had always heard that you don't get that course until the 48th play.

note:  Tommy, that one is for you.  Come back and join the fun.

[Sean Leary]

The Prince Course on Kauai. Still can't believe it makes any top 100 lists.

[Carl Nichols]

While I love Ross courses (because I love the use of a green as a holes defense), I do feel that for a player that can carry 250 with the driver, too many of the holes are short clubs to the greens in regulation (the only variation being wind speed).  

Karl:
Who did you play with, for you to see someone who could carry it 250 with the driver?   

[Matt_Ward]

Tiger:

Great comment - but predictably clueless.

The Nicklaus courses I have played and the fewer Norman ones have been quite good -- and in some cases exceptional. If you have played them and see it differently -- then provide some specifics rather than the shoot from the hip comments.

By the way I didn't think the Nicklaus course at Pronghorn is all that many think it is -- so please don't generalize to the point of being completely empty.

[Brian Cenci]

The Prince Course on Kauai. Still can't believe it makes any top 100 lists.

I AGREE 100%

[Gene Greco]

 NGLA you ask the caddy "Is that good" too many times in the round for me.And I guess since it has been copied so much I did not see anything I had not seen before.Some miniture golf courses have windmills.
  Anthony

You must have only had one go 'round at NGLA.

The course is brilliant and is among those I consider to be best in the world.

Tom Doak gives it a 10.

It's Bill Coore's personal #1.

You obviously missed quite a bit. Hopefully, you will get the chance for reevaluation. 

[Karl Kocher]

Amen Gene, I saw it once and was blown away by many of the holes.  #3, #4 are two of the best I have seen.

Carl, I saw that coming!

[Ted Cahill]

Half Moon Bay Links- Ocean Course.  I played it for the first (and last) time yesterday.  I am flabbergasted that such a great site was used to build such a mediocre, run of the mill resort course.  Great ocean views and great wind, yet the course played soft and mushy!  Obviously, this part of the California coast gets a lot of rain- why not build the course with a sandy base? Hitting an approach shot into a 1-2 club wind and having it plug in front of the green is not a game anyone should waste their time with.  For those familiar with the land use in these parts will understand it when I say they wasted a perfectly good pumkin patch when this course was built...

[Mark Provenzano]

Half Moon Bay Links- Ocean Course.  I played it for the first (and last) time yesterday.  I am flabbergasted that such a great site was used to build such a mediocre, run of the mill resort course.  Great ocean views and great wind, yet the course played soft and mushy!  Obviously, this part of the California coast gets a lot of rain- why not build the course with a sandy base? Hitting an approach shot into a 1-2 club wind and having it plug in front of the green is not a game anyone should waste their time with.  For those familiar with the land use in these parts will understand it when I say they wasted a perfectly good pumkin patch when this course was built...

I played there in both August and September, the course was so firm throughout I couldn't have left a ball mark if I tried. Certainly no plugged lies anywhere.

Here's an example of price point affecting my opinion--I'd consider HMB-Ocean overrated and overpriced at the $185 they ask most of the time. But at the $80 or $50 discount prices they frequently offer, it's a fine way to spend an afternoon.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()