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Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« on: May 20, 2010, 04:35:30 PM »
As you all know, I am very interested in learning all I can about golf course architecture.  In this process, I think book study and peer discussion is important.  But, of course, nothing is as important in this process as actually playing courses worthy of study.  Along these lines, I’ve had a heck of a run of late regarding playing some highly regarded courses.

Pinehurst was the start of this run and this journey included, #2, #4, #8, Pine Needles, Mid Pines, and Tobacco Road. 

Next came Holston Hills.

Followed by Seminole and Bears Club.

And finally National Golf Links of America.

All were played in the month of May.  For one, I am quite exhausted and will be laying low for awhile.  But more importantly, I’ve seen a lot regarding what I’ve been studying and I am getting a real crystal clear picture of the type of golf that I personally enjoy.

I thought #2 was truly an amazing course.  Pure golf.  No distractions.  Wonderful test of shot-making and strategic thinking and execution.  Here is a shot of my favorite hole the par 4 5th.  See what I mean about pure golf.  No water, no fountains, no frilly flowers.  Pure golf.  Great stuff.  I wish I had a good shot of the green, it is awesome!



I thought #4 was an attempt to replicate #2.  I really like the course, but #2 was more my style.  Here is the approach on the 1st hole.  Good stuff! 



#8 was a bit of a curve ball regarding Pinehurst golf and was more akin to a round on wooded parkland as opposed to the unique feeling of playing in the Carolina Sandhills.  I very much liked the course and the change of pace it offered.  More water in play and less trying greens.  Here is the 14th tee shot.  Forced carry over the marsh, bite off as much as you can chew and challenge the hole for birdie or take the shot farther right and have a safer tee shot but longer approach.  I liked it.



Mid-Pines was a truly wonderful course.  The type of course I could play every single day.  Beautiful, fun, but not the most grueling test of golf.  Which isn’t a bad thing necessarily.  Here is the 15th green.  Slightly undulating, but not severe…quite beautiful.



Pine Needles was truly excellent.  Like Mid Pines, I could play it every day.  But it was much more of a test of golf than Mid Pines was.  For a relaxing and enjoying round, I would choose Mid Pines.  But for a match, I would pick Pine Needles.  Here is a really good par 3.



Tobacco Road plain and simply wasn’t my style.  It was a bit goofy in parts in my opinion.  Now don’t get me wrong, every now and again it would demonstrate some truly amazing golf holes and require some adrenaline pumping shot opportunities.  But as the round wore on, the greens seemed to get more extreme and goofy and the blind shot after blind shot got tiring and just a bit annoying.  At least to me.  And this isn’t sour grapes.  I played the tips and had darn near the round of my life.  I guess I simply discovered that this extreme type of golf isn’t for me.  Here is perhaps the best hole on the course.  Try the amazing carry or try the safe route out right.



And here is a bit of goofiness.  Great approach over the bunkers, but that green is a little too much.  But that would be okay if it was just one hole.  But it isn’t there are more like this.  For my taste, it is too much.



Holston Hills was quite simply a truly excellent golf course.  Wide open, fun, great greens, excellent variety.  Like Mid Pines or Pine Needles, it is a course I could play every single day.  Sorry but I forgot my camera that day, but the course can be summarized in one word: cross bunkers.  Wait a second.  That’s two words.  Oh well.  Great course.  Fun times!  :)

Bears Club was quite a trip.  Stunningly over the top clubhouse with a for real Golden (polar) bear in the clubhouse.  Ball buster of a course in what I’ll call a PGA type of set up.  I imagine it would be a great place for the pros to hone their skills prior to playing  a Tour match.  Again, solid course…just not my style.  Here is the 17th tee shot.  Penal for penal sake with the junk right in front of the tee box.  Bunkering on either side of the narrow fairway.  Tough hole.  Tough course.



Seminole was simply a thrill to play.  Wonderful routing, challenging as heck.  And the most difficult greens I have ever had to contend with.  Fast as lightening, slick, and undulating, with seemingly hidden ridges everywhere.  Add in a huge wind and you’ve got a serious golf course.  It isn’t my favorite course of all time, perhaps because it is so darn difficult.  But it is a course I would like to play again and again (just not everyday) to try to learn more about how to play each and every hole and each and every shot.  Great course!  Here is the 10th approach.   Neat!



NGLA was the most fun I have ever had on a golf course.  Rather than a round of golf, it was like an adventure.  With many different options to play seemingly each and every hole/shot and different types of shots required throughout the course.  The greens weren’t as fast as Seminole's were, but they were just right.  And the undulations and ridges and slopes were amazingly fun to putt on and approach.  Now The National had some blind shots, no doubt about it.  But for whatever reason, these blind shots seemed to fit more seamlessly into the feel of the round than the ones at Tobacco Road.  Tobacco Road seemed like extreme golf, while NGLA seemed like pure links golf with options available to the golfer to avoid those wildly daring shots.  Options, strategy, secluded feeling, great greens, awesome bunkering.  A true golf adventure.

I think the course boils down to two pictures.  If you like these holes, you’ll like the course.  If not, I don’t think you will care for it.

Here’s the 3rd…alps.  I highlighted the flag.  Go over the bunker and over or around the hill/mound.



And here is the great Redan.  Awesome…at least to me.



And here is another pic of NGLA...great stuff.



But here is the kicker.  I felt The National was quite simply magical.  And I felt the  entire town of Pinehurst was magical.  In fact, any town with a statue of Donald Ross in the center of its town square is for me!! 



In short, it has been a great May for golf.  For the short-term, I'm going to chill and play local courses.  Would love to hear your thoughts, questions, comments on these courses and more.  Right now, however, I'm going to catch a nap!!   :)

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 04:52:00 PM »
Wow, quite a month Mac! Or, quite a year Mac! Or, quite a lifetime Mac! ;D

Matt Bosela

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 05:01:31 PM »
Mac,

A month that would make any fan of golf architecture envious!  Congratulations and thanks for the summary!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 05:13:42 PM »
Great trax mac, but more importantly did you win money playing?!  :)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Matthew Runde

Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 05:28:29 PM »
Mac, your description and photos of NGLA strengthen my need to visit the course.  Thanks for posting them.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 09:07:46 PM »
Jud...no bets placed.  Playing for the sake of playing. 

If I had placed bets...I would have gotten smoked at #4 and Seminole; kicked almost anyone's butt on Tobacco Road and #8; and been competitive on #2, NGLA, Bears Club, Holston Hills, Mid Pines and Pine Needles.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jim Tang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 09:25:56 PM »
Mac -

Great pictures!  Thanks for the recap.  What a get run of courses you experienced.

Chris Flamion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 09:35:27 PM »
Mac-

You are a horribly lucky man, and you had the type of month that I dream about nightly.

Chris

Peter Pallotta

Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 10:37:46 PM »
Thanks, Mac.  Your enjoyment of these places really comes through.

Peter

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2010, 11:16:39 PM »
Mac played Pine Needles with hickories and did pretty damn well.  He is entirely a pleasure on and off the course.  I hope he gets the chance to play all the great courses.  I have no doubt any membership would greatly enjoy hosting him.
Hats off to the wife and kids as well for letting him live out his dreams.  That's pretty great.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2010, 08:02:45 AM »
Thanks Chris!  That round with you at Pine Needles was awesome.  I can't wait to tee it up with you again real soon.   As soon as I get "clearance" from my better half, I'll be back up to the magical Pinehurst.  I'll be sure to look you up for a round (or three)!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Fred Yanni

Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2010, 09:16:30 AM »
Mac

I am new to the discussion but wanted to Thank You for the great pictures and comments.  If that was your May I can't wait to hear about your June. 

I just got back this week from 4 days in the Pinehurst area with a stay at the magical Pine Crest Inn.  I loved Mid Pines and Pine Needles, two courses I could play every day.

Sadly, I had a pretty negative view of Tobacco Road.  I found none of the holes all that memorable and the course felt very constructed and contrived to me.  I agree there were a couple of memorable shots (the 2nd shot on 11 comes to mind as does the par 3 14th if my memory is correct).   Overall there was nothing in the design or golfing experience that made me want to return there.  To top it off I tied my low career round of 4 under 67  and I still would not go back. 

I still have not been able to play Pinehurst #2.  I have a huge aversion to paying that kind of money for a round of golf, no matter what the historical significance of the course is.   If anyone has any tips on playing that course cheaper, I am all ears. 


PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2010, 09:25:11 AM »
That's one heck of a hot streak there Mac...thanks for the short write up and pictures.

I have to admit though I disagree on your take on Tobacco Road...I would rather play there than any of the Pinehurst resort courses other than #2. "Goofy" in some places? Maybe, but it's a ton of fun to play and very outside the box...which makes it worthwhile to play while in the area full of really good golf.

Pine Needles is also really really good.

However I have never heard of this National Golf Links and Seminole...really slumming it huh?? ;)
H.P.S.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2010, 10:02:02 AM »
Pat...

that is why I had to play Tobacco Road and have to play many others.  Some rave about them and love them, while others hate them.  In all honesty, #2 was/is that way.  So, I had to play it. 

Frankly, that is one of the things I love about golf and studying golf course architecture.  The game and the courses appeal to different people in different ways.  Tobacco Road is the best example I can think of in this regard.  But concerning the game in general, some love to compete and win...while others simply like to walk the course, follow the ball, and simply enjoy nature.  To each their own, that is what is great about the game...in my opinion.

Also (and I know I've said this over and over in my previous threads), Herbert Warren Wind said that almost everyone desribes golf holes incorrectly.  Most people say a hole is a par 433 yard par 4 with water down the right hand side and 3 bunkers surrounding a green that is 40 feet long with a back to front slope.  He says that is wrong...it is not what the course/hole looks like, in order to describe it/them properly you need to describe how it makes you FEEL.

I think he is right on the money!!  In fact, I believe Max Behr alluded to this...and our great Tom Paul!!

Anyway, I am on a coffee high.

Later.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2010, 10:18:45 AM »
Pat...

that is why I had to play Tobacco Road and have to play many others.  Some rave about them and love them, while others hate them.  In all honesty, #2 was/is that way.  So, I had to play it. 

Frankly, that is one of the things I love about golf and studying golf course architecture.  The game and the courses appeal to different people in different ways.  Tobacco Road is the best example I can think of in this regard.  But concerning the game in general, some love to compete and win...while others simply like to walk the course, follow the ball, and simply enjoy nature.  To each their own, that is what is great about the game...in my opinion.

Also (and I know I've said this over and over in my previous threads), Herbert Warren Wind said that almost everyone desribes golf holes incorrectly.  Most people say a hole is a par 433 yard par 4 with water down the right hand side and 3 bunkers surrounding a green that is 40 feet long with a back to front slope.  He says that is wrong...it is not what the course/hole looks like, in order to describe it/them properly you need to describe how it makes you FEEL.

I think he is right on the money!!  In fact, I believe Max Behr alluded to this...and our great Tom Paul!!

Anyway, I am on a coffee high.

Later.

Mac, you old smoothy.  So glad NGLA was as magical as you had hoped.  I look forward to some hearty discussion the next time we meet. 

It was great to be a part of your month of May.  And February wasn't too bad either. ;)

Shane Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2010, 10:20:30 AM »
Mac -

Congrats on a fantastic month of golf.  

And thank you for the fabulous descriptions.  I really look forward to hearing more of your opinions as your golf course resume continues to improve.

Shane

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2010, 10:58:53 AM »
Fred...

The Pine Crest Inn was awesome wasn't it?  Chris Buie showed me around town and that place with the fireplace that you can chip into, Payne Stewart's signature (and now mine)...so cool.

That is what I mean about Pinehurst...it is a special golfing location.  Did you check out the sand green behind the Tufts archives?  Cool!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Fred Yanni

Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2010, 11:11:39 AM »
Mac -

There is nothing better than returning from 36 holes and sharing a few drinks with your group on the front porch of the Pine Crest Inn before dinner.  It was extra special as my buddies and I did a father son trip this year and the dad's repeatedly embarrassed us on that front porch with stories of our misadventures.

The fireplace chip off was out of commission this year as the PC was rocking with music every night.  I missed the sand green, need to see that on the next visit.   

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2010, 11:38:14 AM »
Mac, what a month!  No. 2 is consistently ranked as one of America's best, but it appears to me that of all the greats, there are many who do not like it.  Can you say why?

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2010, 02:51:54 PM »
Tony...of course I can't speak for all of the top courses because I haven't played very many of them at all.  I think I've played 17 Top 100 courses in all.  But I can speak to some specifics about the courses I've played and seen others play.

#2--IMO, people knock it for a few reasons.  The first of which most will not admit to...and that is the course is really difficult to score well on, meaning it is too hard.  I think someone who routinely shoots 85 on a fairly easy and straight-forward golf course will have a hard time breaking 90 on #2 and this will irritate and frustrate them.  I shot a 93 and frankly played pretty well.  Got out of position a few times and got "Pinehursted" a few times (hit the green in the wrong spot and got rejected/deflected).  Also, I think most Ross courses are subtle in nature and not "in your face" (like Fazio's Black Diamond Ranch Quarry course) and many first time players and/or non-architectural geeks will not see and/or be able to appreicate that subtleness. 

NGLA---I think the blind nature of some of the shots, the uniqueness of the greens, the shortness of the course might throw your standard golfer looking for a standard American golf course for a loop.  They "strangeness" of the course might be off putting to them and they won't "get" it.

Kiawah Ocean and TPC Sawgrass might be too difficult for some people, especially if they play the wrong tees.

And Seminole might be like #2, too hard and too subtle to get your first time.

On the flip side, I think courses like Mid Pines, Holston Hills, and Pine Needles would have a hard time finding people who say bad things about them.  Fun to play, fairly straight-forward and really good golf.  Although all Ross courses, they aren't as ball busting as #2 and Seminole and maybe their player friendly nature appeals to a more broad audience.

Anyway, random ramblings in hopes of answering your question.  Anyone else care to weigh in?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2010, 03:13:25 PM »
Anyway, random ramblings in hopes of answering your question.  Anyone else care to weigh in?

I think most people underrate courses when they can't understand where they lost shots - in other words, if they walk off feeling they should have shot 5 shots better, they get po'd and figure the course is lacking.

To me, that feeling means the architect did his job rather well...

Helluva month, Mac, you played more great courses that month than I have ever played in my 14 years of golf. 'Course, that's not saying much, sorry to say.

And I think I know what you mean about Tobacco Road.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Cirba

Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2010, 03:36:51 PM »
Mac,

Terrific thread.   Thanks for sharing your incredible month with us.

Nice to see someone else had the same general impression of Tobacco Road that I did.    I started this thread back in January.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42801.0/

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2010, 03:52:39 PM »
Yeah, the Pine Crest is certainly the #1 choice for the after round beverage - dinner is very good too.  The "In the Rough" bar at Pine Needles is great as well.    
I guess maybe I should do a thread about the non-golf course aspects of Pinehurst.  So that when you jolly fellows do come for a visit you get the proper full spectrum experience.  We very much enjoy having guests here that appreciate what the area has to offer.
I guess I should consider doing a thread on #2 as well.  I've avoided that because there is so much info out there already.  However, there appears to be a lack of clarity regarding its merit.  That's a little surprising to me on this forum.  
Well, I'll leave you with one bit of ephemera from the area.  It is a tradition for golfers to sign their name in the loo at the Pine Crest.  Payne Stewart was personal friends with the family that still owns it and stayed there often. Everybody there especially loved that bon vivant.  If we had known he was leaving for the last time we probably would have sung "“Will Ye No' Come Back Again?" for him - like they did for Bobby Jones at St. Andrews.  
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 03:55:03 PM by Chris Buie »

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2010, 04:36:27 PM »
As you all know, I am very interested in learning all I can about golf course architecture.  In this process, I think book study and peer discussion is important.  But, of course, nothing is as important in this process as actually playing courses worthy of study.  Along these lines, I’ve had a heck of a run of late regarding playing some highly regarded courses.

Ok, time for some learning.  You always say you 'want to learn'.  Well, if you're playing these courses to learn, and some of the best courses in the world I might add, descriptions like 'tough test' and 'pure golf' don't state you've learned a thing.

Pinehurst was the start of this run and this journey included, #2, #4, #8, Pine Needles, Mid Pines, and Tobacco Road. 

Next came Holston Hills.

Followed by Seminole and Bears Club.

And finally National Golf Links of America.

All were played in the month of May.  For one, I am quite exhausted and will be laying low for awhile.  But more importantly, I’ve seen a lot regarding what I’ve been studying and I am getting a real crystal clear picture of the type of golf that I personally enjoy.

Which is what, and why?

I thought #2 was truly an amazing course.  Pure golf.  No distractions.  Wonderful test of shot-making and strategic thinking and execution.  Here is a shot of my favorite hole the par 4 5th.  See what I mean about pure golf.  No water, no fountains, no frilly flowers.  Pure golf.  Great stuff.  I wish I had a good shot of the green, it is awesome!

What is "pure golf"?  What do "no distractions" mean?  Cypress Point has water, Augusta National has frilly flowers, are they both not "great stuff"?  Explain.


I thought #4 was an attempt to replicate #2.  I really like the course, but #2 was more my style.  Here is the approach on the 1st hole.  Good stuff! 

"Good stuff".  Why?

#8 was a bit of a curve ball regarding Pinehurst golf and was more akin to a round on wooded parkland as opposed to the unique feeling of playing in the Carolina Sandhills.  I very much liked the course and the change of pace it offered.  More water in play and less trying greens.  Here is the 14th tee shot.  Forced carry over the marsh, bite off as much as you can chew and challenge the hole for birdie or take the shot farther right and have a safer tee shot but longer approach.  I liked it.

"More water in play".  Is that good?  Why did you like it?  What are "less trying greens"?

Mid-Pines was a truly wonderful course.  The type of course I could play every single day.  Beautiful, fun, but not the most grueling test of golf.  Which isn’t a bad thing necessarily.  Here is the 15th green.  Slightly undulating, but not severe…quite beautiful.

What does beautiful and fun have to do with the architecture?  How much does difficulty have to do with architecture?  Is it possible to have an incredibly difficult course with little architectural merit?  On the contrary, is it possible to have a relatively easy course with lots of architectural merit?  Where do you find the happy median with regards to both, and have you played a course that is a good example of that?

Pine Needles was truly excellent.  Like Mid Pines, I could play it every day.  But it was much more of a test of golf than Mid Pines was.  For a relaxing and enjoying round, I would choose Mid Pines.  But for a match, I would pick Pine Needles.  Here is a really good par 3.

What makes it "truly excellent"?  Again, how much does test of golf have to do with architecture?  Does a more difficult course make it more fun for a match, or is it the course that provides lots of options with many ways to play each hole which does that?  Remember, the course plays equal for each player in a match.  One player might have stronger abilities but when it comes down to the course, well, in the end a match is always played on the same course, with the same pins, conditions, etc.  Does it really matter how difficult it is?

Tobacco Road plain and simply wasn’t my style.  It was a bit goofy in parts in my opinion.  Now don’t get me wrong, every now and again it would demonstrate some truly amazing golf holes and require some adrenaline pumping shot opportunities.  But as the round wore on, the greens seemed to get more extreme and goofy and the blind shot after blind shot got tiring and just a bit annoying.  At least to me.  And this isn’t sour grapes.  I played the tips and had darn near the round of my life.  I guess I simply discovered that this extreme type of golf isn’t for me.  Here is perhaps the best hole on the course.  Try the amazing carry or try the safe route out right.

Why was it goofy?  Why were the greens goofy?  Is there something to be said for courses like this!?  If it wasn't for courses with architecture like TR's or Strantz's in general, there wouldn't be any diversity in golf courses.  There is something to be said for courses that push boundaries and test the limits of design, no?  It may not be your type, but does that really make it "goofy"?  Extreme designs often have a lot from which to learn, and though I haven't played TR, I have played Stranz courses and courses with extreme design, and let me tell you, it's the unique and original designs that border extreme that really stick out in the end.  Mackenzie said something along the lines of 'the greatest courses will be most criticized'.  Think about it.  Why do you think that is?

And here is a bit of goofiness.  Great approach over the bunkers, but that green is a little too much.  But that would be okay if it was just one hole.  But it isn’t there are more like this.  For my taste, it is too much.

Why is it too much?  And why is it ok with one hole but not for 18?  What don't you like about it, architecturally?

Holston Hills was quite simply a truly excellent golf course.  Wide open, fun, great greens, excellent variety.  Like Mid Pines or Pine Needles, it is a course I could play every single day.  Sorry but I forgot my camera that day, but the course can be summarized in one word: cross bunkers.  Wait a second.  That’s two words.  Oh well.  Great course.  Fun times!  :)

How was the variety excellent?  Why do you believe wide open is good architecture?  What do you like about cross bunkers?  How many cross bunkers are too many on one course?

Bears Club was quite a trip.  Stunningly over the top clubhouse with a for real Golden (polar) bear in the clubhouse.  Ball buster of a course in what I’ll call a PGA type of set up.  I imagine it would be a great place for the pros to hone their skills prior to playing  a Tour match.  Again, solid course…just not my style.  Here is the 17th tee shot.  Penal for penal sake with the junk right in front of the tee box.  Bunkering on either side of the narrow fairway.  Tough hole.  Tough course.

Again, how much does difficulty have to do with the architecture?

Seminole was simply a thrill to play.  Wonderful routing, challenging as heck.  And the most difficult greens I have ever had to contend with.  Fast as lightening, slick, and undulating, with seemingly hidden ridges everywhere.  Add in a huge wind and you’ve got a serious golf course.  It isn’t my favorite course of all time, perhaps because it is so darn difficult.  But it is a course I would like to play again and again (just not everyday) to try to learn more about how to play each and every hole and each and every shot.  Great course!  Here is the 10th approach.   Neat!

On your thread on the 12th at Seminole, I found Pat Mucci's comments very interesting.  You seemed to be indifferent about the hole where he praised it not only for being a good hole but for its spot in the routing, getting to the top of a sand dune.  You recognize the routing as wonderful here, when you seemed to overlook that earlier.  How is the routing wonderful?  What makes the greens so great?  The bunkering?  What made it a thrill to play?

NGLA was the most fun I have ever had on a golf course.  Rather than a round of golf, it was like an adventure.  With many different options to play seemingly each and every hole/shot and different types of shots required throughout the course.  The greens weren’t as fast as Seminole's were, but they were just right.  And the undulations and ridges and slopes were amazingly fun to putt on and approach.  Now The National had some blind shots, no doubt about it.  But for whatever reason, these blind shots seemed to fit more seamlessly into the feel of the round than the ones at Tobacco Road.  Tobacco Road seemed like extreme golf, while NGLA seemed like pure links golf with options available to the golfer to avoid those wildly daring shots.  Options, strategy, secluded feeling, great greens, awesome bunkering.  A true golf adventure.

I think the course boils down to two pictures.  If you like these holes, you’ll like the course.  If not, I don’t think you will care for it.

Here’s the 3rd…alps.  I highlighted the flag.  Go over the bunker and over or around the hill/mound.

I appreciate your comments regarding NGLA here.  You seem to understand the course more than the previous courses you speak of.  What were some of your favorite holes, how did the options on each shot get your wheels turning, and how relentless were the golf holes in terms of how to play each of them?  In otherwords, did each hole provide an array of options that were unique and different than the other holes?  Being that NGLA is considered one of the best courses in the world, it should certainly provide diversity in its architecture.  What were your opinion on some of the less talked about hole (9-13 in particular)?

And here is the great Redan.  Awesome…at least to me.

And here is another pic of NGLA...great stuff.

But here is the kicker.  I felt The National was quite simply magical.  And I felt the  entire town of Pinehurst was magical.  In fact, any town with a statue of Donald Ross in the center of its town square is for me!! 

In short, it has been a great May for golf.  For the short-term, I'm going to chill and play local courses.  Would love to hear your thoughts, questions, comments on these courses and more.  Right now, however, I'm going to catch a nap!!   :)



Greg Holland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Thoughts on some courses and golf in general
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2010, 04:48:52 PM »


#2--IMO, people knock it for a few reasons.  The first of which most will not admit to...and that is the course is really difficult to score well on, meaning it is too hard.  I think someone who routinely shoots 85 on a fairly easy and straight-forward golf course will have a hard time breaking 90 on #2 and this will irritate and frustrate them.  I shot a 93 and frankly played pretty well. 

Not sure about this one -- I now some bogey golfers who have had their career best rounds on No. 2.  It is wide open and you can't lose a ball, and they are often just trying to hit the greens, not be in the right spot on every shot, so they manage pretty well.