News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
North Shore in 1917
« on: May 18, 2010, 02:22:04 PM »
This review spanned an entire page, but I've broken it into three pieces for (read each piece before proceeding to the next!) easier reading.











« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 02:21:12 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 08:07:57 PM »
Hmm, well, I thought that article above deserved its own thread.... guess I was wrong!

So I'll reply to my own thread with some nice pics (thanks SS!) of the entrance to Glenwood from 1913, then from the 18th hole at North Shore in 1916.   ;D









« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 01:33:09 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2010, 09:07:44 PM »
Is that an up and back fairway cut? Love it!

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 09:13:30 PM »
Joe,
Perhaps there is a bit of trepidation on the part of posters about entering into another North Shore thread.  ;D

I read it and was going to thank you for finding another interesting article, but I didn't, mainly because I thought others would. I was also going to make the observation that here was another instance where 1,000 words weren't enough to mention the architect, but that would have been obvious to anyone who read it.
I did think it was a bit ironic that the author identified one of the holes as similar to "...the fifth hole at Sleepy Hollow", but he chose not to add anything else along those lines. Too bad. 

Anyway, thanks for posting it. 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 09:48:08 PM »
Amazing that Raynor was not mentioned in this article.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2010, 12:57:46 AM »
Jim - the hole at Sleepy Hollow referred to here was the 5th of the original Macdonald course but is now the Eden hole, our 3rd hole.

He is also describing the Eden at North Shore. Both have very deep ravines between tee and green.
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2010, 02:13:14 PM »
George,
Is that the hole where a whole bunch of small bunkers were added during modern times?
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2010, 02:50:22 PM »
George,
Is that the hole where a whole bunch of small bunkers were added during modern times?

Jim - it is the outgoing hole over the ravine that runs parallel to the 16th Short hole which goes in the other direction - the par 3 to the right of the old bridge over the ravine
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 02:52:28 PM by George_Bahto »
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2010, 03:35:46 PM »
Placemat used currently at North Shore.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 01:25:28 PM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 04:59:09 PM »
Joe,

This article, as always, is really fascinating reading. I particularly like how you post the article and don't jump to some conclusion...

I think the reason this one did not get more response is that all the North Shore thread guys were PSYCHED when you posted it,
read it a few times looking for the architect, and were disappointed when he was not named. (Of course that was enough info for SOMEONE to reach a conclusion...)

Still great reading.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 05:04:33 PM »
Bill,

Raynor wasn't mentioned in the other 2 articles from the Brooklyn Eagle that Joe posted on the other thread. As to why not, one can only speculate.

I understand that Raynor was not a writer himself concerning his work nor was he a promoter. He just did his job.


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2010, 07:15:04 PM »
Steve,

Yes, I noticed that there was no mention of the architect and that got me wondering why.

My best guess is that discussing the details of how a golf course was designed on 1917 was probably FAR less important then compared to the actual description of this relatively new and strange game called golf.

In other words, if there was a general widespread fascination in 1917 with who was building what courses, how their styles varied, etc., the writer would surely have discussed Raynor.

But in 1917, Raynor and Tilly and Ross, etc etc were still early in the process of developing their styles, and building the courses that would EVENTUALLY define them. CBM may have created the term "golf course architect" but that does not mean others saw the importance of it in 1917. You agree?

The absence of the architect, therefore, says a lot about how the "profession" of golf course architect was perceived in 1917. It had a few years to go before a writer covering a new course opening would naturally include the archy, and would instead focus more on the golfing ability of the pro Robert White and the "things" that occurred in this odd Scotish game that had invaded America. If we assume that the vast majority of the Eagle's readers did not play golf, and the writer is simply trying to write an article that will capture the interest of the average reader, including Raynor as the arcihtecht would add little to this effort.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 07:42:22 PM by Bill Brightly »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2010, 06:26:45 AM »
Bill
What other courses circa 1917 didn't give the architect a single mention, especially one with a fairly high profile like NS? This is a pretty unusual situation from my experience.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 09:44:27 AM »
I find the lack of Raynor's name being mentioned in the 3 Brooklyn Eagle articles to be unusual. The minutes of 6/27/16 reflect that newspapermen were to be invited to play the course during the summer if the course was in good condition. Perhaps it never happened. This may account for the lack of articles elswhere.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2011, 02:20:54 PM »
With my ongoing North Shore photo tour, I though I should 'bump' this historical thread on NS.  I'm now hosting the articles on my own web server so they should show now!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 03:33:03 PM »
Wow!  Look at how wide 16 is on the placemat!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: North Shore in 1917
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2011, 09:24:45 PM »
Wow!  Look at how wide 16 is on the placemat!

Mark

And we both missed the FW!  You by a little, me a lot, at least according to the caddy.   ;D
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection