[TEPaul]

As an adjunct to the topic "Geometric architecture" who in the annals of architecture departed most from the use of "formula" or "formulaics" in architecture?

Formula of any kind; routing, design concept, look and style, shape and function, even balance and variety. I hesitate to mention it only because of its obvious exigencies but maybe even in construction itself!

There are probably some small nuances and fineline distinctions but my picks of those that did it the most and do it the most would be Mackenzie and Thomas, and maybe Tillinghast from the earlier era and today I would pick Doak.

I wouldn't really even consider any of the very early architects from the mid 1800s because so many of these early architects and courses probably didn't really even consider architectural formula at all being essentially natural "lay-out" courses with minimal architectural construction.

[Dan Herrmann]

I'd pitch that Pete Dye would fit the bill here.  A true paradigm buster, and I don't think anybody outside the Dye family has tried to reproduce his work.

[Mac Plumart]

Dye is certainly on of the most eclectic and dynamic designers I've come across.

[Mike Sweeney]

I do miss Tom Paul on GCA.com.

I had a very interesting conversation on Friday with a friend of mine from Jersey/Nantucket/West Village and a young Hipster from Hoboken about Private Clubs.

Not just golf but NYC private clubs and we made fun of ourselves and acknowledged our Hipster friend, and how his generation does not care/ignores/disdains private clubs. He tried to talk me onto:

http://www.reddit.com/r/golf

I explained to him that I carry my own bag and play MacRaynor golf clubs

I think Tom Paul would like him!

[Tim_Weiman]

I do miss Tom Paul on GCA.com.

I had a very interesting conversation on Friday with a friend of mine from Jersey/Nantucket/West Village and a young Hipster from Hoboken about Private Clubs.

Not just golf but NYC private clubs and we made fun of ourselves and acknowledged our Hipster friend, and how his generation does not care/ignores/disdains private clubs. He tried to talk me onto:

http://www.reddit.com/r/golf

I explained to him that I carry my own bag and play MacRaynor golf clubs

I think Tom Paul would like him!

Mike,

The Greater New York City area  - where I grew up - is a great place for golf architecture, but not a good place for golf. No Mom and Pops as in a city like Cleveland,OH.

My love affair with golf architecture started when I was about 2-3 years old, but might never have happened if my family didn't belong to private clubs, first Leewood Golf Club in Eastchester where Babe Ruth was once a member and later Pelham Country Club which may explain my affinity for small, intimate properties.

Recently I stumbled upon some interesting history of Pelham Country Club. The house I grew up in on Fowler Avenue probably in part owes its construction to the building of PCC. Apparently, when clearing the course property of rocks, many were used to build nearby houses. My house was built right around the time PCC was built (1921).

Wish I could have seen the original layout before the New York State Thruway was built.

[Mike Sweeney]

My love affair with golf architecture started when I was about 2-3 years old, but might never have happened if my family didn't belong to private clubs, first Leewood Golf Club in Eastchester where Babe Ruth was once a member and later Pelham Country Club which may explain my affinity for small, intimate properties.

Tim,

Did you go to the University of Notre Dame with Pat Mucci? They seem to destroy brain cells there Pat ignores his heritage....

I grew up on Walnut Lane and Cobbs Creek and Philly. I am not claiming some Blue Collar legacy, I am simply saying that I would have loved to have Pelham/Split Rock as a kid. Sure there are too many people in NYC and it is harder to sneak on, but they are very good golf courses. Tom Paul would have never stepped onto Cobbs as a kid, but I think/hope he is supporting the potential renovation.

Mosholu is Mom and Pop with some ethnic heritage factored in!

[Tim_Weiman]

My love affair with golf architecture started when I was about 2-3 years old, but might never have happened if my family didn't belong to private clubs, first Leewood Golf Club in Eastchester where Babe Ruth was once a member and later Pelham Country Club which may explain my affinity for small, intimate properties.

Tim,

Did you go to the University of Notre Dame with Pat Mucci? They seem to destroy brain cells there Pat ignores his heritage....

I grew up on Walnut Lane and Cobbs Creek and Philly. I am not claiming some Blue Collar legacy, I am simply saying that I would have loved to have Pelham/Split Rock as a kid. Sure there are too many people in NYC and it is harder to sneak on, but they are very good golf courses. Tom Paul would have never stepped onto Cobbs as a kid, but I think/hope he is supporting the potential renovation.

Mike,

Actually, I am a passionate USC football fan, but Pat and I still get along!

Pelham was cool. I loved it as a kid, but really Leewood is where I feel in love with the idea of golf courses and I did so at about 2-3 years old. It was something about the land that fascinated me. I used to sit in the pool area and watch people playing down the hill on 18 and just loved it. Also, loved it when my parents drove by some of the other parts of the course. By 3-4, man I was hooked.

Golf architecture is just a great art form. The Walker Cup this fall was a great reminder.

[Tom_Doak]

I'd pitch that Pete Dye would fit the bill here.  A true paradigm buster, and I don't think anybody outside the Dye family has tried to reproduce his work.

Since the original premise was "Who departed the most from formulas or formulaic architecture?," I am compelled to disagree.  Mr. Dye's style certainly evolved over time, but that said, I could identify one of his courses from a mile away.  The "S" shaped holes and angles that he used are repeated on many or most of his courses; they are as identifiable as the work of Seth Raynor or Bill Langford, because he drew a lot of inspiration from those two.

That this has not been imitated by others, is also not true.  For the whole decade of the 1980's, everyone from Jack Nicklaus to Arthur Hills tried to copy Pete's waste bunkers and use of water, before trends started to change.  Most of us who worked for him respect his work too much to try and imitate it, but I could if I wanted to.

[JC Jones]

I grew up on Walnut Lane and Cobbs Creek and Philly.

Wait, I thought Merion was like your back yard...

[Mike Sweeney]

I grew up on Walnut Lane and Cobbs Creek and Philly.

Wait, I thought Merion was like your back yard...

I grew up with Merion, Whitemarsh and Pine Valley members. Father Kelly was like this new Pope Francesco and he made us play muni's to keep us humble. Guess who comes to NYC every year to hit us up for money!!

By the way, I had Virginia winning it all and once again I have to respect Tom Izzo....

[Jim_Kennedy]

Recently I stumbled upon some interesting history of Pelham Country Club. The house I grew up in on Fowler Avenue probably in part owes its construction to the building of PCC. Apparently, when clearing the course property of rocks, many were used to build nearby houses. My house was built right around the time PCC was built (1921).

Wish I could have seen the original layout before the New York State Thruway was built.

PCC - pre-highway
http://maps.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=8&p=1040265,265511&c=GIS1951

[Tim_Weiman]

Recently I stumbled upon some interesting history of Pelham Country Club. The house I grew up in on Fowler Avenue probably in part owes its construction to the building of PCC. Apparently, when clearing the course property of rocks, many were used to build nearby houses. My house was built right around the time PCC was built (1921).

Wish I could have seen the original layout before the New York State Thruway was built.

PCC - pre-highway
http://maps.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=8&p=1040265,265511&c=GIS1951

Jim,

Thanks for that. Is that the New Haven rail line on the second picture?

[Jim_Kennedy]

quote author=Tim_Weiman link=topic=4429.msg1362781#msg1362781 date=1396138357]

Recently I stumbled upon some interesting history of Pelham Country Club. The house I grew up in on Fowler Avenue probably in part owes its construction to the building of PCC. Apparently, when clearing the course property of rocks, many were used to build nearby houses. My house was built right around the time PCC was built (1921).

Tim,
The second one was Pelham Bay in 1921, a rudimentary version. That's the train line in both
If you click on the photo it will open in a viewer and you can zoom way in.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jim,

From what I understand, at least twenty years before PCC was built, a nine hole course was built on Fowler Avenue with the present site of OLPH church over looking the Boston Post Road being the farmhouse club house. It was Mr Fowler's project when the whole area was still farm land. The nine holes went from Fowler over to the New Haven rail line. Mr Fowler owned it all.

Apparently by 1915 it was obvious Pelham would become a bedroom community for commuters into the city and by 1920 most of Fowler's land was sold for real estate development. Around the same time the idea of building a golf course on the present site emerged.

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