[Patrick_Mucci]

[Nick Campanelli]

...because golf carts may find their way into a situation even we couldn't' think imaginable?!?!?!

I too wish more bunkers were maintained like this.  When was the last time you saw someone smile in a bunker?  I'm willing to bet Chip's smile wouldn't be so large if he were in the fairway (although he is playing NGLA).  Hazards like this make the game fun and a hole / course memorable!

[Patrick_Mucci]

...because golf carts may find their way into a situation even we couldn't' think imaginable?!?!?!

Nick,

I was referencing the elimination of the buffer of rough.

There are plenty of bunkers with sharp drop offs like this at NGLA, GCGC and other courses.
And, carts are used at NGLA, GCGC and other courses

I don't believe it's a cart issue

I too wish more bunkers were maintained like this.  When was the last time you saw someone smile in a bunker?  I'm willing to bet Chip's smile wouldn't be so large if he were in the fairway (although he is playing NGLA).  Hazards like this make the game fun and a hole / course memorable!

[Phil_the_Author]

Because the bunker guy in the blue shirt can only take care of 18 holes a day...

[Chip Gaskins]

Nick

That's not a picture of me.  I think that is a friend of Bill Brightly.  With that said, I am not the smartest golfer ever.  I ofter choose the most fun shot to try instead of the safest shot.  I tried to go right at the pin and ended up in the bunker which I was fine with because I then had another fun shot.  Clearly I look at golf different than most

[Nick Campanelli]

Patrick, If there were a button for sarcasm, I would have hit it.   

Chip, sorry for the wrongful identification. 

[Peter Ferlicca]

My question when I see that is picture is; First, that has to a pain to flymow.  And once you are done flymowing the rough going down into the bunker, how the heck do you get the leftover grass out of the bunker.  You are not going to be able to use a blower to get it out.  Anyone know how you would manicure that bunker. 

[Chip Gaskins]

Here is what it really looks like.  And yes, after working on the greens staff in college doing fly mowing everyday mowing this bunker would be extremmly hard.  With that said, there aren't many of these on the course and something tells me NGLA has the means to pay to get them cut this way....

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

This is the same question we've had on this website a number of times. For starters, or at first, I think the answers are best left to the maintanenance guys on this website. The last thing we need is a bunch of arrogant know-it-all like you to try to tell them they know their job better than they do!

But my first logical thought is if one can do it why can't others? 

[Chris Flamion]

I am not going to use the picture as an exact example, however....

"Is it to much to ask to turn the 4-5 feet of rough in front of the bunker into a standard push mower 18 inches wide?? I know you use push mowers I have seen them......."  Q&A with the super one day.

Chris

[Sean_A]

I love the look of grass face pots, but understand they are a bit of a pain to maintain.  Concerning the rough buffer zone around bunkers, I had a course owner tell me that it signals cart-ballers to stay away from the edge of the bunkers.  I can certainly see this working because the buffer is a natural cue, but I still don't like it.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

If you're talking about the short-cut right up to the edge, then I'd say you would often get turf and compaction problems, depending on location /grass species etc... plus extra time involved... But as Mr.Paul suggests, I'll leave that one to the maintenance guys to explain properly...

[Matthew Mollica]

How does everyone feel about the wooden steps into the bunker in Pat's picture?

MM

[Bradley Anderson]

The answer is money.

I haven't been to NGLA (yet) but from all these pictures there appears to be as much hand mowing work around the collars and approaches as most clubs spend on all their greens and tees combined.

[Bill Brightly]

Sad but true, I believe the rough barrier serves as a warning to cartballers. This may not seem like a big deal for members, but remember, every Monday there are 100 or more nuts driving around on your course who don't really give a damn...The damage carts do around a bunkers can be severe. I was playing in an outing last year at Morris County when our forecaddie, trying to be helpful and move the cart to the next tee while we we were putting, drove the cart over a mound and then right into a bunker he forgot was there! It made me sick...

Also, for a course that has rough barriers and would like to change, I think it is a really big task. You would have to strip out all the bluegrass and re-plant or sod with bent. And you can't just do a bunker or two, you have to do the whole course, every fairway bunker and green complex, so the look is consistant.

[Mark Pearce]

Patrick,

As I'm sure you know it's reasonably common practice on UK links courses for there to be fairway length grass approaching bunkers. Further more, it's not unusual to have fairways shaped so that contours direct balls towards bunkers, increasing the effective size of the hazard yet leaving only a small bunker to maintain and which can, of course, be harder to escape from. One of the joys of BUDA last year was hitting what looked like a good drive and then waiting anxiously whilst walking towards the landing area to see if it had caught a contour and been thrown into a bunker at Deal.

One of my concerns with changing maintenance practices is the growth of collars of rough in bunker approaches, particularly fairway bunkers.  At my club there are fairway bunkers with contoured areas around them clearly intended to catch balls into the bunker which now sit surrounded by stopping rough.

[Jon Wiggett]

I can see Bill B's point on carts ending up in bunkers. It is a shame this does not sound alarm bells through the memberships/owners of said clubs that despite having greenfees not in the lower end bracket and the cost of carts on top the type of client coming through the door is sometimes not at the desired level. Maybe golf clubs need to look more into behavior of the client rather than just ability to pay.

On the point of view of maintenance the actual cutting of the approaches and surrounds can be done with a sit on machine so no extra costs there. The grass faces are much easier to do with hedge trimmer than a flymo and unless you have flat bunkers you have to cut the faces with something.

Clubs who have planted different types of grasses will have the biggest problems in altering as Bill B points out. This is the area which affect GCAs and it is the desire for definition or not that is IMHO which shows the biggest difference in attitude between GB&I and US golfers. Maybe here it will be necessary to use mixed swards where HOCs can vary without changing the sod completely giving more flexibility.

TEP,

saying it is purely a maintenance issue (which you appear to be implying but feel free to correct me if this is not the case ) simply not true. This is often used as an excuse but taking that grass needs to be maintained regardless of the HOC it just doe not stand up. It is really down to the GCA and the club to decide what look they are after.

Jon

[Cristian]

How does everyone feel about the wooden steps into the bunker in Pat's picture?

MM

I don't mind them, they have a nice classic look, but I wonder if one is entitled to a drop when one's ball comes to rest between the steps, and if yes, where?

[Bill Brightly]

While I absolutely love the look and playing condition around the bunkers at National (and Ireland and the UK), the next time you play a parkland course with rough collars, try to envision what you would have to do to get rid of the collars. It is not a simple matter of mowing between the green and the bunker. The bunkers almost always are 100% surrounded by rough, so you would have to basically widen the fairways on both sides, and extend that look back from the green by 50 yards or more, and continue fairway all the way around the bunkers to make it look right.  It is a HUGE task.

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat: Let me ask you this: do you have a problem with the stairs in the bunker?  NGLA is one of the gems but how do you feel about those steps?  The bunker was built/created so the steep slope was created and is it perhaps too severe if it requires stairs to safely get to the playing surface?  Do you know if the stairs were put in when the course was built?

[Bill Brightly]

I don't have any problems with steps like that. I bet you could stand there with a bag of balls and a putter and only get one or two to stay on the stairs, the rest will end up in the bottom of the bunker. And it certainly beats destroying the bunkers faces. I happen to like the contrast that a well worn set of stairs adds.

[Adam Clayman]

Pat, Because it's not standard.

So many courses are maintained (or set up) with the buffer rough because that's what people expect. It's the whim of the day. I once asked Stephen Kay why he had The Links of North Dakota set up like a Westchester county course, with the rough buffer, and his answer was..."I like the contrast".

[Brent Hutto]

As I'm sure you know it's reasonably common practice on UK links courses for there to be fairway length grass approaching bunkers. Further more, it's not unusual to have fairways shaped so that contours direct balls towards bunkers, increasing the effective size of the hazard yet leaving only a small bunker to maintain and which can, of course, be harder to escape from. One of the joys of BUDA last year was hitting what looked like a good drive and then waiting anxiously whilst walking towards the landing area to see if it had caught a contour and been thrown into a bunker at Deal.

I've previously commented by Royal Birkdale has some of the widest, far-reaching "event horizons" of any course I've ever seen. At least it did nine months before they last played the Open there. It's very strategic in that playing short of a green so that the ball bounces on and (hopefully) stays near a front hole location, you may have a 25-yard gap between bunkers but unless you land it dead center of the gap the ball will curve into a bunker. So then you have to consider just flying it up to the hole and risking running off the back of the green, perhaps laying up short of the bunkers or most likely just accept being in a boatload of bunkers over the course of the day.

At least one shot I remember from that day was downwind and the turf was so firm I was able to land a mid-iron shot short of the bunkers and bounce over them and onto the green. That was very cool!

[Randy Thompson]

ummm, we have this exact bunker shaped on a par three hole at Santa Martina presently in construction. I have tried to soften the slope on the face farthest from the green to avoid putting in stairs but will make that final determination onced grassed. We also have another similar shape maybe six to eight yards in front of the pot bunker but further from the green that we will most likely make all grass and no sand just to mix it up a little.

[Jim_Kennedy]

 I don't think carts had much to do with rough bordering the bunkers. It existed many years prior to the their introduction, as shown in many of the old photos that have been posted on this site alone.

I'd say it's due more to capes and bays and men who don't want to get off (or clubs who can't afford it) their machines to do hand work.

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