[Ally Mcintosh]

A discussion on another thread has me start this one... I was wondering if we tracked the course length of the open, whether we would see major step changes related to equipment changes... Understandably, it isn't easy to find historical data doing a quick search of the internet so if anyone has any info, please post it and I'll update this original post on a frequent basis... So here we go so far:

1870 - Prestwick - 5,703 (based on 12 hole course yardages. Year estimated by Melvyn)
1889 – Musselburgh – 6,000 (2 rounds of 9)
1905 – St.Andrews – 6,533
1920 – Royal Cinque Ports – 6,710
1925 – Prestwick – 6,544
1932 – Princes – 6,890
1939 – St.Andrews – 6,842
1955 – St.Andrews – 6,996
1995 – St.Andrews – 6,933
2000 – St.Andrews – 7,115
2001 – Royal Lythym – 6,905
2002 – Muirfield – 7,034
2003 – Royal St.Georges – 7,106
2004 – Troon – 7,175
2005 – St.Andrews – 7,279
2006 – Royal Liverpool – 7,258
2007 – Carnoustie – 7,421
2008 – Royal Birkdale – 7,173
2009 – Turnberry – 7,250
2010 – St.Andrews – 7,305

[Tony_Muldoon]

Seems to fit here as well.

[Simon Holt]

I know Muirfield has put a new tee in on the 9th, along with a new bunker on the right just as you reach the fairway in preparation for 2013.  Just to reach the fairway, into a prevailing West wind you will have to carry 230yds, onto a 20 yard wide fairway, bunker right at 245ish, bunker left at 270ish.  They knocked through the wall onto land they swapped with Renaissance- they have done a great job on the wall actually.  This hole is a 4 for the members froma forward tee but a 5 in the Open.

In preparation for 2013 the qualifying courses (Dunbar, Gullane No. 1, Musselburgh GC and North Berwick West) have to meet a length of 6800.  I have already had a mini rant earlier this year about changes they make to these classic course just for one two day event every 10 years....!

North Berwick has put in a new tee on 7 which we are already playing off now in club medals.  That has added 25-30 yards and is slightly elevated which makes it a nicer hole visually.  Only 270 more yards to find!!!

[Andrew Mitchell]

I know Muirfield has put a new tee in on the 9th, along with a new bunker on the right just as you reach the fairway in preparation for 2013.  Just to reach the fairway, into a prevailing West wind you will have to carry 230yds, onto a 20 yard wide fairway, bunker right at 245ish, bunker left at 270ish.  They knocked through the wall onto land they swapped with Renaissance- they have done a great job on the wall actually.  This hole is a 4 for the members froma forward tee but a 5 in the Open.

In preparation for 2013 the qualifying courses (Dunbar, Gullane No. 1, Musselburgh GC and North Berwick West) have to meet a length of 6800.  I have already had a mini rant earlier this year about changes they make to these classic course just for one two day event every 10 years....!

North Berwick has put in a new tee on 7 which we are already playing off now in club medals.  That has added 25-30 yards and is slightly elevated which makes it a nicer hole visually.  Only 270 more yards to find!!!

Simon

Putting another 2 or 3 clubs on that second shot to the 7th, particularly if into the wind, will make it an even more daunting shot over the Eil Burn!

[Simon Holt]

Certainly into a wind it will.  It actually brings the solitary bunker on the right more into play as it has become a little redundant.  Good move in my view.  Not sure where they will find the rest of the yardage though. 

Certainly room to take the 17th tee back but at 423 its reasonably long and uphill anyway.  Perhaps 12 which has gone back already in recent years.  I have always thought they could take the 9th tee back if they could go into the field behind.  Cant really think of many more places...perhaps they will take the tee for Redan and put it the other side of the wall on the dune next to the 14th green.  230 into that green....!!  Cant see that one happening!

[Andrew Mitchell]

Certainly into a wind it will.  It actually brings the solitary bunker on the right more into play as it has become a little redundant.  Good move in my view.  Not sure where they will find the rest of the yardage though. 

Certainly room to take the 17th tee back but at 423 its reasonably long and uphill anyway.  Perhaps 12 which has gone back already in recent years.  I have always thought they could take the 9th tee back if they could go into the field behind.  Cant really think of many more places...perhaps they will take the tee for Redan and put it the other side of the wall on the dune next to the 14th green.  230 into that green....!!  Cant see that one happening!

Is there room to take the 8th tee back?  Don't joke about taking the Redan tee back over the wall. It's been argued on here before that's where it was originally!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Melvyn has Prestwick course yardages at 3,802 yards (12 holes) which he thinks are from 1870... So I've put them in...

I've no idea where North Berwick will find that yardage... I'd rather they found it on one hole than add tees on 9 holes though... At least that way, it can be an anomaly which returns after the event... With 9 new tees, they will stay and become the new back tees that people want to play...

Isn't it mad to stipulate that a course has to be a certain length (6,800 yards)... Completely the wrong message...

[Simon Holt]

Andrew- they have taken back 8 recently- nless they put it on the east side of the burn where it would be in danger from sliced drives from 12 and sliced approach shots to 7.

Ally- yep.  Couldnt agree more.  Madness!  You should see the bunkers they have put in on the 1st hole at Gullane No.1.  in a effort to stop people driving a 310 yard hole they have placed bunkers at 260 right in the fairway.  No difference to the pros (so defeats the purpose) but might spoil the hole for the members day in day out.

[Sean_A]

In the case of North Berwick, why not just make #1 a par 3 and the par 5 along the wall a par 4?  For that matter they could make #11 a par 4 as well.  Hell, foir that matter they can make 18 a par 3.  Bobs yer uncle.  Seems much more sensible to change the par for a day rather than build tees for a day.

Ciao

[Brian Freeman]

If I were a member at North Berwick I would seriously be considering the value added from being on the Open qualifier rota.  Is it really worth it?  Getting that course from the 6464 listed on the website to 6800 is a massive change, and to what end?  Glad I'm playing there before that happens.

[Tim Nugent]

Sean stole my thunder. Don't add yardage, just lower par.  But my guess is that they would build a couple "no man's land" tees(to be abandoned later).  I'd pick on the open area inland from #11 approach for #12 - puttin the burn at about 320.  And perhaps #16 could get a tee towards the corner of the wee course putting that burn at the dogleg (right)  You could also stretch #9 but who owns that field?  Maybe #1 back/right about 50 yards (can't remember if that nob is the same elevation).

As for the valuse - it let's them become "one of the big boys" and as we all know, size matters

[Ally Mcintosh]

If they didn't have the starter hut there, they could play the old 1st... Wasn't it Rich who used to contend that once upon a time, all the unused links terrain (the putting green etc..) was part of the golf course?

[Scott Warren]

Go one further than that, Ally, whack a tee on the road out to the marina and you have a daring diagonal water carry to start the day with the starter's hut acting as the world's biggest marker post!

[Niall C]

In the case of North Berwick, why not just make #1 a par 3 and the par 5 along the wall a par 4?  For that matter they could make #11 a par 4 as well.  Hell, foir that matter they can make 18 a par 3.  Bobs yer uncle.  Seems much more sensible to change the par for a day rather than build tees for a day.

Ciao

Sean

I agree where you're coming from but that would just show how ludicrious the whole thing is. After all if you shot one less than everyone else then you still wion irrespective if you are 10 under or par.

Niall

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