[Mark Luckhardt]

So Mr Moore made it out of Maine for one trip to Philly but he did not see or play The West.

Maybe someday one of the Philly guys will make it up to:

http://www.capearundelgolfclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=29

The greens at Cape A, put it over the top. Add in the setting and lobster rolls back in town and it is not a fair fight.

Wianno is probably a 5/5 split for me between The West and Wianno (Cape Cod). Architecturally, The West is better, but the Cape is the Cape.....

We just completed the restoration at Cape Arundel, and never touched the classic greens except for some XGD. The West greens at Merion have also seen XGD on the 3 lower holes. I believe the general intent of this thread to boast on Merion West is a fair ambition, however the Travis greens at Arundel are unique, and the course in general is tightly laid out on a few select acres of tidal rivers that make it a truly unique experience different from Merion West. As an inland woodland course traversing over hilly terrain the west is a must play and excells in that genre.

[Ben Stephens]

I wonder how Merion West compares with Cavendish as the 'most interesting' course under 6K yards. I was blown away on how good and how much fun Cavendish was to play even it took me 4 balls to work out how to play the 15th!  

[Mike Sweeney]

I had the same thought as Dan Malley. Paxon Hollow is very competitive with MW.

http://golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Pennsylvania/Paxon%20Hollow/index.html

Mayday is typically an easy target, but this is not the craziest thing he has ever said!

[Mike Sweeney]

We just completed the restoration at Cape Arundel, and never touched the classic greens except for some XGD. The West greens at Merion have also seen XGD on the 3 lower holes. I believe the general intent of this thread to boast on Merion West is a fair ambition, however the Travis greens at Arundel are unique, and the course in general is tightly laid out on a few select acres of tidal rivers that make it a truly unique experience different from Merion West. As an inland woodland course traversing over hilly terrain the west is a must play and excells in that genre.

Mark

What is XGD ?

[Mark Luckhardt]

We just completed the restoration at Cape Arundel, and never touched the classic greens except for some XGD. The West greens at Merion have also seen XGD on the 3 lower holes. I believe the general intent of this thread to boast on Merion West is a fair ambition, however the Travis greens at Arundel are unique, and the course in general is tightly laid out on a few select acres of tidal rivers that make it a truly unique experience different from Merion West. As an inland woodland course traversing over hilly terrain the west is a must play and excells in that genre.

Mark

What is XGD ?

XGD Systems is an underground subsurface drainage system connecting the upper soil profile and the lower soil profile in such a way as to control the gravitational groundwater table in the greens. All the East greens have it as well.

[Tom MacWood]

Did Merion West shrink? When it was originally designed it was a little over 6000 yards. I believe Wianno is also over 6000 yards from the back tees.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's the scorecard:

http://www.customscorecards.com/scorecard.php?course=19955

[Doug Braunsdorf]

When I was a junior golfer, the Merion Invitational was played at the West Course and I loved playing the course each spring.  There are not many courses around under 6,000 yards that compare to that one. 

Chris, welcome to Golf Club Atlas! 

[Willie_Dow]

As I said Pat, when are you going to see what a difficult soil content required drainage on surface demanded contured fairways ?

Fun to play, as our handicap goes up !

[TEPaul]

"Did Merion West shrink? When it was originally designed it was a little over 6000 yards."



Tom MacWood:

Yes, the 3rd hole, a par 5, shrunk at the tee end.

The course was described by Hugh Wilson's brother Alan as 'designed for the nine and ninety.' The plan for the 3rd hole redesign was of the shorter "go/no go" par 5 concept for the less than expert player and it is believed it was found on a bench in 30th Street Station in Philadelphia in late 1914. Some speculate the redesign plan was done by HH Barker as he journeyed by train from the South back to New York.

There is some credence to this story because some think the East Course is also a design done by HH Barker in Dec 1910 as he journeyed by train from New York to Georgia. That Barker East Course design plan was apparently found by Horatio Gates Lloyd in the mens-room at the Ardmore Station of the Main Line RR.

Seeing as HH Barker is considered by some to be the second best architect in America at the time obviously he was an extremely busy man constantly on the go and it seems the best he could do was to leave significant design plans at RR stations in the general vicinity of those courses!

[Chris Roselle]

When I was a junior golfer, the Merion Invitational was played at the West Course and I loved playing the course each spring.  There are not many courses around under 6,000 yards that compare to that one. 

Chris, welcome to Golf Club Atlas! 

Thanks Doug, good to be aboard.....

[Jud_T]

 Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East.


Sean,

What are your favorite sub-6000 yarders in BG&I? I assume Painswick is one....

[Sean_A]

 Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East.

Tom P

Don't you know that even talking about the SgfhgfgfhgfX makes it twice as likely that I will be again inflicted with that dreadful disease?  Knock it off.  BTW flying around was in a cart and skipping holes.  I think we spent 2.5 hours on the West.  I need another go. 


Sean,

What are your favorite sub-6000 yarders in BG&I? I assume Painswick is one....

If we are talking sub 6000 from the tips:

KINGTON & CAVENDISH are my two favourites.  WEST CORNWALL & NEW ZEALAND are two additional courses I would be happy to take an overnight detour to play. 


Sub 6000 from member tees (no real point in moving back to be honest); all are courses I would be happy to take an overnight detour and play the member tees.

Temple
Beau Desert
Stoneham
Addington
Brora
Southfield

Swinley Forest is a borderline great course, but not especially one of my favourites. 

Gullane #3 and Painswick are both good and worth a go if in the general vicinity.

There are probably a few others that I am forgetting about. 

Ciao

[TEPaul]

"Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East."


Sean Arble:

I'm afraid as a few on here have said to you, including probably Tom Doak, you might have a particular taste in architecture that the vast majority of golfers do not exactly share.

I think I know what it is too, and I must say, I think I share it with you, even though I might be a bit more catholic generally than you are.

[Sean_A]

"Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East."


Sean Arble:

I'm afraid as a few on here have said to you, including probably Tom Doak, you might have a particular taste in architecture that the vast majority of golfers do not exactly share.

I think I know what it is too, and I must say, I think I share it with you, even though I might be a bit more catholic generally than you are.

TomP

Sure I have preferences - doesn't everybody?  Having preferences doesn't equate to only accepting a certain(s) of architecture as good.  I like all sorts including Merion West, but that doesn't mean I think the West is terribly special.  Of course, I am not a right coaster so perhaps that has something to do with it.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

 Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East.

Tom P

Don't you know that even talking about the SgfhgfgfhgfX makes it twice as likely that I will be again inflicted with that dreadful disease?  Knock it off.  BTW flying around was in a cart and skipping holes.  I think we spent 2.5 hours on the West.  I need another go. 


Sean,

What are your favorite sub-6000 yarders in BG&I? I assume Painswick is one....

If we are talking sub 6000 from the tips:

KINGTON & CAVENDISH are my two favourites.  WEST CORNWALL & NEW ZEALAND are two additional courses I would be happy to take an overnight detour to play. 


Sub 6000 from member tees (no real point in moving back to be honest); all are courses I would be happy to take an overnight detour and play the member tees.

Temple
Beau Desert
Stoneham
Addington
Brora
Southfield

Swinley Forest is a borderline great course, but not especially one of my favourites. 

Gullane #3 and Painswick are both good and worth a go if in the general vicinity.

There are probably a few others that I am forgetting about. 

Ciao

Another very worthwhile course under 6,000 yards from the tips.... Boat of Garten...

[TEPaul]

"TomP
Sure I have preferences - doesn't everybody?"


Sean Arble:

Of course they do. Matter of fact, I very much like to see more golfers express their real preferences in architecture and particularly if they seem not to be particularly main-stream opinions and preferences.

 
"Having preferences doesn't equate to only accepting a certain(s) of architecture as good."


Of course not! It just seems like your preferences are distinctly not particularly main-stream. I don't think mine are either. Your opinion on Merion West just is what it is. I only mentioned that to get the full effect of the architecture of Merion West the best way to do it is obviously not to shank your way around the course, Sean "Shankapotamous" Arble. 

[D_Malley]

I would love to hear from those claiming MW to be the most interesting sub 6k course as to what makes it better than Paxon Hollow.
I have played both courses well over 100 times, and am having a hard time deciding myself.

MW's par fours are probably a little more challenging and have more length, but this is mainly due to the fact that MW only lists two par 5's on its card where as PH has four par 5's.

[mike_malone]

 Dan,

   How can a public course be the equal of a Merion course ? It just isn't possible

[JESII]

I would bet you two are the best qualified to asses the two courses, why don't you break them down for us.

I've played the West course a half dozen times or so, and never played Paxon Hollow.

Other than saying one is better than the other in total, give us an analysis...if you wish.

[TEPaul]

"I would bet you two are the best qualified to asses the two courses, why don't you break them down for us."


Whoa, Sully, that was almost one great typo malapropism, but it needs a teeny bit of grammatical doctoring. It should read:

"I would bet you two are the best qualified two asses to assess the two courses; why don't you break them down for us with a couple of excellent side by side simultaneous moon shots?!"

[TEPaul]

"I would love to hear from those claiming MW to be the most interesting sub 6k course as to what makes it better than Paxon Hollow."


D Malley:

It's remarkably simple really. It's because MW was done by the carefully crafted Merion architectural Uber-legend Hugh Irving Wilson and Paxon Hollow was done by some schloc nobody! However, if one could even semi-legitimately claim that architectural Uber-legend H. I. Wilson did Paxon Hollow and not Merion West then Paxon Hollow would completely swamp MW and Paxon Hollow would advance right to the top of the world as the best and most interesting golf course under 6,000yds ever done.

Matter of fact, if you have nary a vestige of info claiming H.I. Wilson did Paxon Hollow, since I have been accused on here by the expert researcher from Ohio, Tom MacWood, of doctoring original Merion records, I would be more than happy to doctor you up some original records proving H.I. Wilson was the original architect of Paxon Hollow and not MW. All you have to do is buy me a gross of cases of some pretty find red wine.

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