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Ivan Lipko

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2010, 03:55:24 PM »
----------moved to the right thread
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 04:08:44 PM by Ivan Lipko »

Ivan Lipko

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2010, 04:07:17 PM »
Sorry, seem to be extremely stupid  - posted that in a wrong thread!  ;D

Look forward to seeing the rest of the holes, BTW!

John Mayhugh

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2010, 04:49:12 PM »
Here's one more photo from the back of the second green that shows some of the contours.



Matt_Ward

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2010, 05:31:47 PM »
Just a tough hole into the prevailing headwind out of the north during the summer.

The real tough placement is the back right into say a 2-3 club wind or even more.

Takes plenty of muscle and a good bit of placement to achieve the desired result.


Ben Voelker

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2010, 11:04:31 PM »
The second green looks enormous!  Not that they all don't at Old Mac...

Does anyone know how the size compares to the original?

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #2 Commentary in progress
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2010, 11:16:27 PM »
Hole #3 - par 4 - Sahara
Back tee - 375 yards
Middle tee - 345 yards

After playing the first two holes, the first time player that is familiar with the routing knows that the course is about to be revealed in all its glory.  As soon as you can muster up the courage to send the tee shot over the ridge of death that awaits.  The carry is not overly demanding, but the ridge is just far enough away from the tee and just high enough to force the unsure golfer to swing a bit harder than usual.  We all know bad things can happen when this occurs, particularly when there is a little wind waiting.

After clearing the ridge, the golfer makes one of the toughest hikes on the course... up and over to the other side.  The fairway is as generous as it needs to be given the blind nature of the shot.  Extreme width to miss a far right or long as you'd like, though the tee shots that run through the fairway will potentially face a second consecutive blind shot.  Left is ok, as long as you don't go too far left of the tree.  Most shots to the left side of the fairway will funnel down the fairway with a nice look at the green.  Too far left is probably one of the worst spots on the course to miss, but you have to be pretty far left to get there.  Short of the ridge might only cost you one stroke, but it could be worse depending upon the lie you get.

The third isn't too long, so you don't need to do too much with the tee shot.  The tee shot will generally play as a bit of a diagonal or cross wind.  One faces a somewhat helping wind in the summer and hurting in the winter.  I suspect the winter wind we faced on opening day was just enough to leave a few golfers facing a second shot over the ridge after a poorly struck tee shot.  There were a couple in our group's three rounds.

The Sahara features another great green, though I suspect the fairway will get most of the attention here.  It's a great green on a course full of many of them.  The fairway, on the other hand, has some really extreme movement with contours and a left to right elevation change that feels like something one might see at Sand Hills or Ballyneal.

The ridge makes its presence known from the very beginning of the round.  Here it is seen as the golfer walks from #1 to #2.


Here's the view from the 3rd tee box.


The fairway looks like this


Looking back from the fairway to the ridge


The large green is in full view from the left side of the fairway


Coming from the right side parts of the green may be hidden from view


The far right side behind the mound


The green from behind


A little closer view of the bowl with the opening day pin placement

« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 11:44:55 AM by Tim Bert »

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2010, 11:31:14 PM »
My favorite picture so far this year...


Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2010, 11:33:16 PM »
Nice one, Ed.  Is that the 14th pin?

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2010, 11:44:10 PM »
No, that should be the top of the flag on #2.  The picture was taken roughly from the 17 green/18 tee.  So the #3 tee would be just to the right.

Here are a few more...





« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 12:06:25 AM by Ed Oden »

Jim Adkisson

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2010, 12:04:25 AM »
Having not played OM yet, the third tee shot looks to me to be similar to PD#9 when the lower green is in use...is this the case?

Ed, killer photo...

Tim, great thread and photos...looking forward to the 4-1/2 drive to Bandon in November with 3 rounds at OM on the schedule.

Michael Dugger

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2010, 12:12:41 AM »
Eek, Jim, you are channeling me this evening.

This tee shot always reminds me of #9 at Pac.

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jim Nugent

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2010, 12:24:03 AM »
Why do they call this hole "Sahara?"

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2010, 12:25:57 AM »
Having not played OM yet, the third tee shot looks to me to be similar to PD#9 when the lower green is in use...is this the case?

Jim, there may be some commonality from the tee.  But the fairways beyond are very different.  So the shots do not play the same in my opinion.  For what it's worth, here are photos of both:

Old Mac #3...


Pacific #9 to lower green...


By the way (and not to threadjack), our caddies told us the lower green on PD #9 hasn't been used for about a year.  What's up with that?  I prefer the lower green on #9 since it means the lower tee on #10, which I think is vastly superior to the upper tee on #10.

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2010, 12:32:44 AM »
I was going to make the #3 Old Macdonald / #9 Pacific Dunes comparison in my post but I tried that in another thread before my trip to Bandon, based solely on the appearance in the photos, and Tom Doak disagreed with my opinion. I think he mentioned that the ridge line at #9 Pacific Dunes is actually no higher than the tee box whereas as this one is an uphill tee shot.

Either way, I do feel like they have some similarities, although I think I like #3 OM better. The 9th at Pacific Dunes always felt like a breather to the lower green in the summer wind and I'm not sure I'd say the same about this one.

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2010, 12:34:31 AM »
Ed - I should have figured out you wouldn't be on the other side of the ridge with that little daylight left. I was trying to judge based on the direction of the branches on the tree when I should have used a bit of common sense.

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2010, 12:46:00 AM »
    This hole is just so much fun to play.  The tee shot gives everybody a lot of room and makes the walk over the huge dune more exhilarating than difficult.  I think there will be a lot of coomments about the green because it has so much movement.  In the 2 rounds that our group played this hole everyone had at least one approach shot that was wild.   We were all driving it pretty close to the green so there were a lot of cool bump and run shots and some over the top putts from 30-40 yards!.   Absolutely loved it.

DMoriarty

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #91 on: September 27, 2010, 01:34:18 AM »
Why do they call this hole "Sahara?"

The Sahara at Sandwich circa 1894:


From HJWhigham's 1909 description of the strategic underpinnings of the holes at NGLA:
  


Franklin Booth Illustration from same article:


Tim Bert,

I'm posting these just to give context and answer Jim's question, but if you'd like me to delete so that OM can be viewed on its own merits, I'd be glad to.  Just let me know.  

Also, if anyone is interested, here is a link to CBM's and Whigham's 1914 article on NGLA's Sahara Hole. (Tim, I'll post it if you want.)

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1914/gi2i.pdf

Tim, Thanks for putting this together.  

DM
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 01:41:36 AM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2010, 01:54:25 AM »
Ed,

Wood Sabol the local photographer would be jealous of that photo of the tree and crescent moon.

Tim,

Nice description and photo

Jim,

  George Bahto talks about Sahara in his book.   Bernard Darwin describes it as a shot that carries a "heaving waste of sand"  The hole Darwin describes is a par 3.  He goes on to write that you won't  see the ball "nestle by the flag"

The blowout to the right of the ridge line at Old Mac already existed but the tee shot really doesn't play over the sandy waste area.  The hole draws it's inspiration from that shot over the ridge.  The second hole at the National has a similar shot but the sandy waste land is on the left and you hit right over it on the direct line to the green.  The large sandy area is not as visible today as it once was at the National but Bill Sollenitti the super showed me where he was planning on opening up some more of the sandy areas for better visibility from the second tee.

The width of the fairway on the west side of the tee is generous and it is the biggest fairway on the golf course.  It was really hard to put a right edge on this fairway.  We could have let the ball roll out even farther on the bail out line but enough was enough on the width. The green and approach was shaped in by Bruce Hepner.  It has a big punch bowl on the back left and most of the hill side slopes towards the green.  

This hole has a few oddities associated with it.  One of the weirdest is that while we were seeding the Eden green below the ridge  they were filming Golf in the Kingdom on the ridge line above us.  I have the picture of us working down below while the film crew is up above filming a few of the scenes.


JC Urbina

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2010, 01:58:48 AM »
DMoriarty,

Nice history lesson.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2010, 02:04:53 AM »
DMoriarty,

Nice history lesson.

HJ Whigham knew his stuff.  

Interesting that the shape of the landform is so similar in the 1894 photo and in the photos of OM's 3rd, above. All that is missing from the old photo is the old dead tree.  
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2010, 02:42:59 AM »
Two comments regarding the third at OM:

On the play shot, there are three lines to take; the A line, which is over or somehow, either by hook or fade, closely around the snag; the B line, which is the safe but strong line to the right of the snag, and the C line, which some might term the bailout line, but safe and very usable for the shorter hitter or higher handicap player.  I always play some variation of the B line, attempting to draw or fade based on the wind direction. With a summer wind it is possible to play through the fairway on this line (even for an average length drive), but the rough down there is fairly consistent, and allows for a fair play into the green, blindly played if the cup is on the right but visible enough when on the left.

To me the green has two halves; the big fun bowl on the left side, which by it's contour has fewer cup locations and allows shots to gather into the center of the bowl, and the right side, which is fraught with difficult contours, where no putt is simple.  The front of this half kicks balls down to the right front corner if not played strongly into the green.  Putting into the middle of the green from the right front is difficult at best.

Reallly a fun hole, but certainly not one to take lightly.
the pres

Sean_A

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2010, 10:16:57 AM »
again - 1st tee - setting the post (in the background Tom was burning down/clearing the proposed course





Very typical, just fing typical.  A bunch of guys standing around with their hands in pockets while one does the work.

The third tee shot reminds me of Rye's 6th.  The second is sort of similar as well, but at OM the green looks much more inviting a target.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:25:28 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Mayhugh

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2010, 12:17:20 PM »
A few more photos of the third. 

Perhaps I just cannot view the entire photo on my screen, but didn't seem like there was a good view of the whole sand blowout.


A look back towards the second green from the third fairway.


From the left side of the fairway.


Mr. Bert getting up & down.


From the fourth tee.  I loved the transition from green to next tee.





Richard Choi

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2010, 01:52:00 PM »
Definitely one of my favorite holes at OM. I was blown away by the dramatic elevation changes in the fairway. The leftside of the fairway is about 20 feet above the right side. I also LOVE the fact that a putter is a viable option from 150 yards out if you are on the leftside of the fairway. This is one fun hole.

jonathan_becker

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #3 Commentary in progress
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2010, 02:08:47 PM »
Does anyone how far is it to carry the ridge off the tee on #3?