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Sven Nilsen

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #150 on: October 26, 2010, 11:47:49 PM »
Two thoughts on 6:

1.  The best drive will hug the bunkers on the left opening up a better angle to attack the green (downwind) or to place your second (into the wind).  If you have the chance to go for it in two, especially when the pin is on the right, the left side is definitely the preferred place to be.

2.  Long on this green is no picnic.  With a pin on the left, I imagine the back bunker is a real problem.  With a right pin, the mound Tim mentioned is perhaps the most severe internal green "hazard" I've ever seen.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #151 on: November 04, 2010, 11:02:54 PM »
Charlie I just saw your comment and thought I'd give you my take.  When I started reading your post my mind immediately went to "movement" when you said definition.  The fairway is full of small scale movement.  Humps and bumps all over the place that might be hard to see from the photo.

By the time I finished reading your post, I had a very different impression of what you meant by definition.  In the sense that I now think you meant it, I'd be more inclined to say that many of the par 4s to this point lack definition.  On 1, 4, and 6 you stand on a tee looking at an open landing area with such width that many may just step up and aim at the middle, knowing they can miss wide left or right and still find fairway.  On 3, while the Sahara feature is certainly well defined, the line and the framing for a tee shot is not well defined in my opinion.

My take would be that the 6th tee shot is consistent in that sense.  Hopefully some others will chime in if they have a different opinion.

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #152 on: November 04, 2010, 11:40:23 PM »
This picture provides some idea of the size of Hell Bunker...



...and it only shows the far right portion of the bunker.

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #153 on: November 05, 2010, 12:10:37 AM »
Ed - wow!  I stood right in front of it and I don't recall it being that big. I remember thinking it looked less severe than I expected.

Is that trick photography?!?   ;)

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #154 on: November 05, 2010, 12:35:21 AM »
Is that trick photography?!?   ;)

Well, I will admit that Joe (who is in the bunker) is closer to Mars Blackmon than MJ.  But other than that, no tricks.

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #155 on: November 05, 2010, 10:54:28 AM »
This was a tough lie for Glossy - into a very strong summer breeze:



« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 11:03:41 AM by Brett Morrissy »
@theflatsticker

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #156 on: November 05, 2010, 01:52:04 PM »
Great picture Ed! Is that ball plugged? 

I am really intrigued by the openness of the course even compared to the other courses at Bandon.  My experience playing courses that are open (but not to the degree Old Mac is) is that I have a hard time hitting quality shots as it is harder for me to focus on a specific target.

Yes, the ball was plugged.  He hit a great shot just to get it out.

Your comments on lack of definition are very interesting.  My pal Bart Bradley started this thread a couple of months ago... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45898.0/  While Bart described things in terms of "intimacy" in his thread, I know that he was getting at much the same point you are:  expansive scale without a lot of definition.  Bart never mentioned which course got him thinking about this issue.  It's not so hard to figure out now.

Gary Daughters

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #157 on: November 05, 2010, 10:56:34 PM »

Does anyone know how deep Hell Bunker is at its deepest?
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

JC Urbina

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #158 on: November 06, 2010, 11:35:45 AM »
Gary,

The deepest spot in Hell bunker is the players right side as you first walk into the bunker.  The sand seems to be exiting from that location and moving around inside the bunker to other locations.  So depending on the time of year  the depth can vary.  For discussion will say it started at  around 12 feet deep.

Gary Daughters

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #159 on: November 06, 2010, 08:50:59 PM »

Jim, how do you build a bunker such as that and prevent the internal contouring from eroding?  Or is erosion inevitable, either with a gullywasher or simply over time?
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

Tom_Doak

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #160 on: November 06, 2010, 09:05:14 PM »
The erosion is 100% wind erosion, and in Bandon it is almost impossible to stop until you get down to a hardpan layer in the soil underneath the bunker.

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #161 on: November 06, 2010, 09:44:51 PM »
So Tom, in that situation at Bandon, which you have had to deal with twice now with Pac Dunes and Old Mac - what is the plan or philosophy for dealing with the issue of bunkers and the sand before the project and then for the life of the course - 200+ years?

Once you have decided on how to approach or deal with the bunkering, is it then up to the Super/Owner to manage the sand?
@theflatsticker

Jim Adkisson

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #162 on: November 07, 2010, 08:05:51 AM »
Tom/Jim....Why the sleepers in your version of Hell?  Extra intimidation?  Needed definition?  Or were they really needed to stabilize the bunker face...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 08:21:26 AM by Jim Adkisson »

Carl Rogers

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #163 on: November 07, 2010, 11:02:22 AM »
Tom/Jim....Why the sleepers in your version of Hell?  Extra intimidation?  Needed definition?  Or were they really needed to stabilize the bunker face...
Added local rule question At OM:  Are the sleepers played as part of the course or an obstruction?  I assume the former?

Tom_Doak

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #164 on: November 07, 2010, 11:37:20 AM »
Tom/Jim....Why the sleepers in your version of Hell?  Extra intimidation?  Needed definition?  Or were they really needed to stabilize the bunker face...


Mostly it was an aesthetic decision ... we wanted the course to look different than the other three at Bandon, and no one had done a sleepered bunker face there.  But we did know that Macdonald saw a lot of sleepers in his time in Scotland, and he did build a couple of bunkers like that in the early days at National Golf Links, so we thought it fell within our mission statement to try a couple. 

jonathan_becker

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #165 on: November 10, 2010, 12:56:04 PM »
Here's another look at the back bunker on #6 from last week.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 01:56:20 PM by jonathan_becker »

JC Urbina

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #6 Commentary in progress
« Reply #166 on: November 10, 2010, 11:27:27 PM »
Jonathan,

That bunker face was built with sod layers.  You can barely tell from that picture.  Just a quick note, that edge and face is all mowed with a weed eater.  I watched C.J the asst at Old MAc go around the golf course weed whipping the edges to perfection.  I have pictures of him walking from hole to hole doing touch up work.  One man wrecking crew, like a surgeon - Fast and efficient.

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #167 on: November 12, 2010, 10:07:15 PM »
Hole #7 - par 4 - Ocean
Back tee - 363 yards
Middle tee - 345 yards

The 7th hole wraps up a tremendous stretch of holes that is my favorite group of consecutive holes on the course.  One of the best sustained opening stretches in golf if found at Old MacDonald, and some would rightfully argue that the stretch is longer than the first 7 holes.  #1 through #7 is just my personal preference.

The 7th is yet another moderate to short length par 4 on the front nine.  Like the 1st and the 3rd before it, it will play wildly different depending upon the wind.  The whole will play longer in the summer than in the winter.  Like the 3rd, a shot must ascend a very steep hill.  Unlike the 3rd, that shot is the approach on this hole. 

A small mound in front of the tee obscures the view of at least some of the fairway.  The tee shot is so interesting to me because the fairway essentially runs diagonally past the point where the dune climb to the green occurs, giving the player many options depending upon the wind and the pin position.  The fairway runs all the way beyond what one might consider the normal "boundary" of this hole and melds into the area in front of the 8th green. 

One could probably play as little as a middle iron from the tee and still have a reasonable shot to play up to the green, though the approach would be difficult.  With our winter wind, I think a hybrid or longer iron was probably the most popular choice from the tee, leaving a shot directly up the face of the dune.  Another option was to play long into the fairway cutting across the 8th, and then playing somewhat backwards and up the hill to the pin.  All of these tee shots could leave as little as a wedge into the green, depending upon how far left into the fairway the tee shot was played.  The approach is extremely uphill thanks to the steep face of the dune.

Once you climb the hill to the green, the scenic view steals the show but the green deserves significant attention as well.  The ocean supplies a view, but it should be a rather rare circumstance where the cliff comes into play.  There is plenty of room to hit the ball here.  When the pin is near the northwest corner of the green, there is a bunker that would appear ready to grab a few more golf balls rolling through the firm and fast green.

This is hole represents some of the finest work on the course in my opinion.  I think this hole represents the peak of a long, sustained crescendo that begins when the first tee shot it struck.  There may be another mini-peak in there at #5, but there's no break until the snack shack at the ocean.  Climbing up the dune to see how you fared on your approach shot combined with the rewarding views of not only the ocean, but more importantly the entire course laid out before you, is really something else.  This view back on the golf course, triangulated with the ones available when the golfer first crosses the Sahara and also when the golfer reaches the green on #14, is one of the best ways to take in the enormity of the golf course.

From the tee


A look from the beginning of the fairway


The approach if the golfer chooses the short shot off the tee.  Still a good bit of work remains with an awkward diagonal uphill approach.


This angle straight up the dune shows that a shot left short might not run ALL the way back down, but it is definitely coming back to one of the tiers.


Another view that shows the severity of the uphill approach


This is the type of angle you'll have if you choose to bang it long into the fairway in front of the 8th green.  Another uphill, diagonal approach, but from a very different angle than the other two approach options.


Looking back down on the 7th fairway


A setting that will be featured in many, many photos for years to come


A look at the greenside bunker


A view looking north from the green - similar to the view of the Sheep Ranch that one gets from #13 Pacific Dunes, but a little closer.

 
Here's the view of #7 with #13 green at Pacific Dunes behind.


One more look at the green


Snack anyone?  Not a bad place to sit and enjoy a bite to eat if the course backs up


Brett_Morrissy

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #168 on: November 12, 2010, 10:41:47 PM »
Tim, (great post mate)
agree this will be many's favourite, I really enjoyed this Ocean hole- for our 36 holes, it was straight into 4 club breeze, the breeze a strong influence on the hole, I attempted to go straight at the flag off the tee keeping it below the frontal dune, but then to calculate the shot required up the hill, knowing the wind will be much stronger once up on top, thankfully as you mention, there is plenty of room and plenty of width on the green - magnificent. it was also my shot of the day, a 5W  - actually I believe I hit 5W + 5W.

Here is the pin position we had for the day - very back/right little ledge or plateau - a wonderful slope behind acts as a backboard to that pin - one of my favourite type design features. Although too far brings that bunker into play.

images edited - thanks Jim



« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 08:00:17 PM by Brett Morrissy »
@theflatsticker

Ed Oden

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #169 on: November 12, 2010, 11:06:06 PM »
#7 is my favorite hole at Old Mac.  I find it both interesting and ironic that an original design is arguably the best hole on a course full of templates.  I've heard stories that the halfway house was originally planned for the spot where the green is located.  It's hard to imagine anything other than this masterpiece occupying such a magnificent site...


Jim Tang

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #170 on: November 13, 2010, 09:58:12 AM »
Yikes.  OM looks sweet.  I've got to get back out there.

For those who have played OM, what do you find to be the greatest challenge the first few times around? 

Tim Bert

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #171 on: November 13, 2010, 10:05:47 AM »
I think the unusually large greens and the long wild putts are probably the biggest challenge the first time around.  I shot a better scre here on the first go around than I had ever shot at Pacific Dunes and I would have cleared my Pacific best by 5 strokes had it not been for taking 4 shots to get the ball out of a fairway bunker on #18 at Old Macdonald.

Upon further reflection, I will say the fairway bunker on #18 was the biggest challenge the first time around!!

Jim Adkisson

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #172 on: November 13, 2010, 10:15:45 AM »
Before getting to my question regarding the seventh hole, a question about the halfway house...I suspect that this structure is located between the 8th tee area and the 15th green?....It looks larger than the PD "bunker" between 4th and 13th tees...Is this structure visable from the golf course or is it hidden behind the dunes?  Also, a dumb question, but, are there outside urinals?

Enquiring Minds Need To Know.

Ted Cahill

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #173 on: November 13, 2010, 10:16:49 AM »
Yikes.  OM looks sweet.  I've got to get back out there.

For those who have played OM, what do you find to be the greatest challenge the first few times around? 

Jim- I found the greatest mental challenge was the tee shot at Sahara when it's into the wind. Visually, it's intimidating and when the wind is flapping your pants- clearing the dune with your tee shot is very much in doubt.  When I just cleared the dune- it was one of the more satisfying golf shots.

On #7- I love the options of the approach shot. I have played in windy and benign conditions at OM. In the benign, you can flip I nice 9 iron up there. But it was more fun in the wind when I had to punch a 6 iron into the front of the dune and watch the ball climb the hill. 
“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”

Ted Cahill

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Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #7 Commentary in progress
« Reply #174 on: November 13, 2010, 10:23:05 AM »
Before getting to my question regarding the seventh hole, a question about the halfway house...I suspect that this structure is located between the 8th tee area and the 15th green?....It looks larger than the PD "bunker" between 4th and 13th tees...Is this structure visable from the golf course or is it hidden behind the dunes?  Also, a dumb question, but, are there outside urinals?

Enquiring Minds Need To Know.


Jim- it is larger than PD bunker. No ( bummer) no outdoor urinals. The halfway house at OM is good and bad. It's good after seven for a pitstop while you wait on the par 3 8th green to clear. But I don't like that golfers feel the need to use it after 15. It's a farther ( opposite direction) distance from the 16th tee and is needlessly contributing to slow play.
“Bandon Dunes is like Chamonix for skiers or the
North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is
where those who really care end up.”