Cuba?

[Steve Curry]

I heard a bit on the BBC radio on my way in to work about Cuba's intent to push tourism by opening an otherwise closed housing market through golf developments.  Does quality golf land exist there and will people go?

Cheers,
Steve

[Steve Okula]

No pasa nada, hijo.

[Steve Okula]

Quizas mañana, amigo.

[Ronald Montesano]

Okula, ?mexicano?  iandale!

si,  hay terrenos muy buenos para construir campos de golf notables...lo importante es la inversion de fondos y un sistema de transportar a los turistas a los sitios mas aislados.

[Richard Hetzel]

Optimistamente el arquitecto pide dinero efectivo en el barrell antes de recoger un lápiz.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Steve,
It is 42,000 square miles - 2/3 the size of Florida.

Let's go.

[Robin_Hiseman]

How does the US embargo on trade with Cuba affect the prospect for US architect's working there?  A good time to be Canadian Mr. Andrew

[Gary Slatter]

Cuba is great, Anthony will move there in a flash when US gets over its hegemony or whatever

[Davis Wildman]

'Golf is the key...'  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8661734.stm

[Terry Lavin]

In need of one more revolution, just like most of my short putts...

[Rob Miller]

If you're an US architect I believe you can work there if you do not earn any money or purchase any Cuban goods or services.  Or...just fly through Canada and make sure your passport isn't stamped.   

I was briefed a few weeks ago on our Cuba policy and it seems we're a still further away than I thought on eliminating the embargo.  It's not an if but a when though, and when we're free to travel and do business in Cuba it will be the Caribbean destination.

Was Hemingway a golfer?

[Tom_Doak]

And who exactly is going to put up the money to fund these developments?

The Cubans themselves are broke, that's why they are "open" to investment.  You see lots of signs of support for Cuba in Spain, but the Spanish banks are all about to go under due to European troubles.  American banks are legally forbidden to invest -- and those regulations have a lot more penalties (civil and criminal) attached to them than simply looting the American public and the government.  The Chinese are going to keep their dollars for themselves.  So, unless Canadian and Brazilian banks suddenly get in the mood to develop Cuba, it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

[Rob Miller]

For me, politically, Cuba is not so different than Vietnam or China.  The only major differences between the countries are size and geography.

Culture and investment climates are hugely different, so I wouldn't touch an investment in golf or real estate unless major changes were in motion.  It's a major risk and a moot point anyway for a U.S. passport holder. 

Bottom line though is that from the standpoint of the people of Cuba, US policy for the past almost now 50 years has been debilitating.  The embargo will end sometime soon  , and the potential for investment in preparation for that is growing.  There are even Cuban Investment Funds betting on S. Florida companies that will benefit post-embargo.  Capital will be there after it's lifted, and hopefully developments will include good golf courses. 

What effect will US tourism dollars have on the economy?  Will that be impetus enough for political change?  I don't know but I'm hopeful.

[Wayne_Kozun]

For me, politically, Cuba is not so different than Vietnam or China.  The only major differences between the countries are size and geography.

I agree - why does the US have no issue with having billions of dollars in trade with China but you can't even visit Cuba?  Is it just because of the anti-Castro factions in Florida and the US assets seized in the Cuban revolution?

And Kelly - there are many international groups that also have issues with prisoners held on another part of that island called Guantanamo Bay.

I do belive that a few Canadian architects have designed courses in Cuba.

[Greg Tallman]

And who exactly is going to put up the money to fund these developments?

The Cubans themselves are broke, that's why they are "open" to investment.  You see lots of signs of support for Cuba in Spain, but the Spanish banks are all about to go under due to European troubles.  American banks are legally forbidden to invest -- and those regulations have a lot more penalties (civil and criminal) attached to them than simply looting the American public and the government.  The Chinese are going to keep their dollars for themselves.  So, unless Canadian and Brazilian banks suddenly get in the mood to develop Cuba, it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Better stated is teh fact that nobody is going to invest heavily in Cuba until US citizens can freely travel to and from without being proecuted for a crime. Having Mexican documents comes in quite handy sometimes. 

[Dale Jackson]

I do believe that a few Canadian architects have designed courses in Cuba.

There is one legitimate golf course in Cuba, in Varadero, the main resort area in the country.  It was designed by Les Furber, a Canadian.  It is a really fun course and well worth playing.  There are plans for additional courses but there have been plans for at least 15 years, sooner or later they will go forward but don't hold your breath.

The reality of Cuba is much different than the US media would have you believe.  The Castro regime is not without its serious faults and I abhor totalitarianism in any form.  However, the country has one of the world's highest literacy rates, higher than the US, UK or Canada.  It has an excellent health care system accessible to all.  The people are gracious and friendly in the extreme.  It is a wonderful place to vacation, full of recreation and culture.

I do not understand why so many fear a country that is small, poor and struggling to exist in the face of a blockade from a country that has absolutely nothing to fear from it.

I am sure some on this DG will not agree with my statements but this thread has been one sided and I merely want to point out there is another side.

[Steve Curry]

Any good golf land and will people go?

[Dale Jackson]

Any good golf land and will people go?

Steve, there is no end of good land, it is a tropical country with miles and miles of coast land and incredible beauty.  The number of courses is not limited by suitable land.

Will people go?  I assume you mean American people because the rest of the world already goes in droves.  In particular, it draws large numbers of Canadians, Brits and Germans.  But there are large numbers of nationalities at all resorts.

[Steve Curry]

Thanks Dale,

My U.S.centric perspective now revealed, I assumed there was no tourism in Cuba, though I did assume given the geography it would have desirable land.

Thanks,
Steve

[Tom MacWood]

At one time there were a couple of very good Ross courses on Cuba -- CC of Havana and Havana Biltmore. I wonder if it would be possible to restore those courses. I believe the clubhouse of CC of Havana still exists. There was also a Herbert Strong course on Cuba, I believe Varadero is built at that site, though I'm not sure any of the original course was retained. 

[Dale Jackson]

At one time there were a couple of very good Ross courses on Cuba -- CC of Havana and Havana Biltmore. I wonder if it would be possible to restore those courses. I believe the clubhouse of CC of Havana still exists. There was also a Herbert Strong course on Cuba, I believe Varadero is built at that site, though I'm not sure any of the original course was retained. 

Tome, not sure about Havana Biltmore - other than it o longer exists - but I believe the CC of Havana now exists as a 9 hole dust bowl.  There is golf of a sort but my understanding is the old course is gone forever.

The current Varadero course was built on the old course, which was built by the Dupont family.  Here is a paragraph about the course from the Varadero GOlf Club web site -

"Although architect Herbert Strong designed the first golf course with 18 holes, it was later built with only 9 following a design by Sim Cuthrie. The first four holes were built on natural soil, while the others required refilling. The golf course was started in December 1931, and shortly after completion, in September 1933, was hit by a hurricane that swept away with greens and fairways from holes 5 to 9. From April to December 1934, over US$ 10 000 worth of soil had to be dumped on the land and the golf course was fully operational again in 1936."

The present course uses some of the original holes, although I believe it is the routing that remains, the tees and greens were rebuilt.   Those original holes are some of the best on the course.