[Dan Herrmann]

Tom Paul, in a posting on the Cup thread wrote, "Too bad you didn't run into those clubs' head professionals Nye, Clark, Connelly and Gilbert duking it out in a fist and knuckles match over on the West Course yesterday afternoon. They were all of the same opinion that Merion West may be the most interesting little golf course of under 6,000 yards there is."

I completely agree with that statement.  There's SOOO much fun architecture built there - volcano bunkers, greens flowing into subsequent teeing areas, an 18th green only feet away from the Adirondack Lodge-style clubhouse, great elevation changes, and fun fun fun...

Is there another better short course anywhere?

(To quote from Gil Hanse's interview at GCA.com:
My Top 5 (Philly area courses) aside from Pine Valley and Merion’ are

1 Rolling Green – great set of greens and par 3 holes.
2 Gulph Mills – loads of character from Mr. Ross and Mr. Maxwell
3 Manufacturers – cut down some trees and this would go up.
4 Lancaster – great setting with more great greens from Mr. Flynn.
5 Merion West – Bill Kittleman says that there is more architecture in this course than on the East.)

(Some good pictures are at http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Pennsylvania/Merion%20West/)

[David Amarnek]

I just got back from a Philly trip with seven other members from several St. Louis area clubs.  We played Lancaster, Merion East, Gulph Mills and finished the "tour" with Merion West.  Most had not played any of these courses previously and I would have to say that they were very impressed with all of them.  The West course was the perfect ending and a wonderful change of pace compared to the other venues.
The bar-b-q hamburgers afterwards were the hottest and tastiest I've had in quite some time and compensated for my 3 putt on 18!
I would recommend including the West to anyone lucky enough to have access to Philly courses and would have to rank it as my favorite short course of all.

[Mike Sweeney]

So Mr Moore made it out of Maine for one trip to Philly but he did not see or play The West.

Maybe someday one of the Philly guys will make it up to:

http://www.capearundelgolfclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=29

The greens at Cape A, put it over the top. Add in the setting and lobster rolls back in town and it is not a fair fight.

Wianno is probably a 5/5 split for me between The West and Wianno (Cape Cod). Architecturally, The West is better, but the Cape is the Cape.....

[D_Malley]

There is another good sub 6000 yard course just a couple of miles down the road that anyone can play.
and the back nine is as good or better than the west

[TEPaul]

"5 Merion West – Bill Kittleman says that there is more architecture in this course than on the East."


Prof. Kittleman put in an appearance yesterday at the Baily Cup at Merion, and he repeated that statement. I tried to get him to return after the golf but he said he probably wouldn't because he figured the Cuppers would be drinking at that point. Davis Sezna who might be funnier than 75% of the professional comedians out there was standing nearby and heard that and offered: "Oh no, Prof. Kittleman we don't do that anymore; we're back to drugs now."

Later at dinner, Mr. Day read the Lesley Cup letter from 1940 that mentioned after golf the Baily Cupper should "relax and have a few snorts," and later in the letter it said the Cuppers "should relax some more and spray their throats."

A few snorts and spray your throat?? What kind of language is that? No wonder Sezna said the Cuppers are back to drugs now.

[Mike Sweeney]

"5 Merion West – Bill Kittleman says that there is more architecture in this course than on the East."

I don't see that on West 5. A unique hole for sure, but where is the great architecture? Basically you have to be left on the high side to the point that left rough is preferred to have a reasonable chance of hitting that green? Right is fairway is very tough second shot and way right is OB.

I can't see anyway to play the hole other than left - way left? I am a big fan of The West, but I think we are romanticizing it a bit much.

[TEPaul]

"I don't see that on West 5. A unique hole for sure, but where is the great architecture? Basically you have to be left on the high side to the point that left rough is preferred to have a reasonable chance of hitting that green? Right is fairway is very tough second shot and way right is OB.

I can't see anyway to play the hole other than left - way left? I am a big fan of The West, but I think we are romanticizing it a bit much."



Mike Sweeney:

That is just so odd! Firstly, I don't think Dan Hermann meant to say there was more architecture on Merion West's hole #5; he only put a numerical #5 in front of his mention that Kittleman said the West course has more architecture than the East course. However, when I saw Prof. Kittleman yesterday I thought he did mention again that he thought the West course has more architecture than the East course but oddly when he said that he did specifically mention hole #5 I think. 

I know that because I then told him a story of officiating in a Pa Mid-Am championship qualifying round at the West course when a group hit their tee shots from the 15th tee to the 5th green.

[Jim Nugent]

Mike and Tom, he's not talking about hole number 5 at MW.  He's saying the course is his 5th favorite in the Philly area, other than ME and PV.  (i.e. really 7th)

[Sean_A]

Tom Paul, in a posting on the Cup thread wrote, "Too bad you didn't run into those clubs' head professionals Nye, Clark, Connelly and Gilbert duking it out in a fist and knuckles match over on the West Course yesterday afternoon. They were all of the same opinion that Merion West may be the most interesting little golf course of under 6,000 yards there is."

I completely agree with that statement.  There's SOOO much fun architecture built there - volcano bunkers, greens flowing into subsequent teeing areas, an 18th green only feet away from the Adirondack Lodge-style clubhouse, great elevation changes, and fun fun fun...

Is there another better short course anywhere?

(To quote from Gil Hanse's interview at GCA.com:
My Top 5 (Philly area courses) aside from Pine Valley and Merion’ are

1 Rolling Green – great set of greens and par 3 holes.
2 Gulph Mills – loads of character from Mr. Ross and Mr. Maxwell
3 Manufacturers – cut down some trees and this would go up.
4 Lancaster – great setting with more great greens from Mr. Flynn.
5 Merion West – Bill Kittleman says that there is more architecture in this course than on the East.)

(Some good pictures are at http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Pennsylvania/Merion%20West/)

I wish I had more time around the West Course.  I flew through it far too quickly to get a real flavour of the place.  There is all sorts of wild and not so wild stuff going on.  For me the West really does require its own day away from the East.  Even with my fly round, I could see that Merion West was no match for several sub-6000 yarders in GB&I, but still the perfect foil for the East.

What the heck does "more architecture" mean?  It sounds like more man-made features. 

Ciao

[TEPaul]

Sean Arble:

God only knows why I would remember hearing such a thing but would you say that your one time at Merion West when you were flying around the West course is synonymous with basically shanking the ball around the West course?  

Ever since I gave up on the old classic blade type of irons years ago I've not shanked the ball since but shanking the ball around a golf course just may be about the least good way of getting to know the architecture of a golf course.  

But if for some reason I do start shanking the ball constantly I will be sure to say----"Boy, I am really flying around this golf course now."  And if after that someone asks me what I thought of the architecture of the course I think it would be most appropriate of me to ask; "What architecture?"

[David Stamm]

I have never played Merion, nor the in the UK, but I would be willing to bet that there are a few courses in the UK/Ireland that are under 6000 yds that would give Merion West a run for it's money.

[JESII]

At that length, the wind and the bounce would seem to be of utmost importance, and the UK courses will clearly have that to their advantage...but Merion West is really cool.

About 15 years ago the qualifier for the Philadelphia Amateur was 18 at Aronimink and 18 at Merion West. I shot 72 at Aronimink and 85 at the West course.

What does the term "more architecture on the West" mean? If the rough on the East is manageable and the greens are good, there is more to think about out there than just about any other course I've played.

[Bart Bradley]

The best "short course" I have ever seen is the Valliere course at Morfontaine...absolutely amazingly fabulous.  7 of the 9 greens are spectacular.  I am going to see Merion later this summer, I look forward to seeing what the West has to offer.

Bart

[TEPaul]

"What does the term "more architecture on the West" mean?"


Good question. A statement like that is typical of Prof. Kittleman who is considered by those in the know to be an architectural genius of such import and consequence that the best policy is to just listen and consider what he says and NEVER actually use such effrontery as to ask him what he means by that.

I will tell you one thing though----eg "Quirky Corner"---#6, #7 #8 are three holes in a row that you will never see the likes of anywhere else, and matter of fact there is no chance at all anything like them could be built where they are on that property. It just would not be allowed by permitting agencies or whatever.

[JESII]

In the midst of that 85 I made a 10 on #8...I hit it 8 times and it hit me once...

[Chris Roselle]

When I was a junior golfer, the Merion Invitational was played at the West Course and I loved playing the course each spring.  There are not many courses around under 6,000 yards that compare to that one. 

[Dan Boerger]

I REALLY enjoy Merion East and Merion West.

But, if Merion East did not exist I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of people a lot less enamored with Merion West -- and in particular #6, #7 and #8. One can put up with a lot of "quirky" when you have the East Course at your disposal!

[Peter Pallotta]

I too was going to ask about the meaning/description of 'more architecture', especially in the context of short course not affected (relatively speaking) much by wind etc. But reading that JES could shoot a 72 at Aronimink but an 85 at Merion West (okay, make that 10 a 5, and you still have an 80) tells me all I need to know....

Okay, it really doesn't tell me all I need to know, but, you know what I mean.

Peter

[Dan Herrmann]

Dan,
Merion West is many more times fun than what many single course clubs have.  You could play it every day and never tire of it.

Peter, Let's take MW #1.  A short, straight par 4.  But there's more to it.  There's a volcano bunker and a funky green.  Now let's jump ahead to #18.  A long uphill tee shot leaves you an approach to a green backed by the ADK style clubhouse.  There's interesting trouble all around, and the green itself is wonderful.

I just picked two holes at random. 

What I like about it is it has some holes where you just hit it as far as you can and others where a delicate touch is required.  It also uses elevation very well and very creatively.

[JESII]

I too was going to ask about the meaning/description of 'more architecture', especially in the context of short course not affected (relatively speaking) much by wind etc. But reading that JES could shoot a 72 at Aronimink but an 85 at Merion West (okay, make that 10 a 5, and you still have an 80) tells me all I need to know....

Okay, it really doesn't tell me all I need to know, but, you know what I mean.

Peter

I think the key is that I wasn't good enough to shoot 72 at Aronimink.

Merion is cool with alot of really interesting features and a couple world class holes, but I would side with Sean (purely on instinct) on this one in finding an equally cool little links course with all the benefit of the elements that Merion lacks.

[Mike Demetriou]

Does anyone have a pic thread of the West course? If not, how about a photo of a "volcano bunker". I'm guessing i know what this looks like, but I'd love to see it...

[Joe Bausch]

Here are a few pics of the 1st green with the volcano bunker.

[Mike Demetriou]

Joe, that's awesome, and EXACTLY what I thought it was. Very cool.

Excellent photos, you can really see how interesting the green is on the 2nd photo.  Does anyone know of a pic thread for the whole 18??? more please!

[mike_malone]

 I had the same thought as Dan Malley. Paxon Hollow is very competitive with MW. This is not a knock on MW but praise for classic golf in Philly. What about Melrose?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe, that's awesome, and EXACTLY what I thought it was. Very cool.

Excellent photos, you can really see how interesting the green is on the 2nd photo.  Does anyone know of a pic thread for the whole 18??? more please!

Check out the link in Dan's original post above which will take you to a photo tour of the entire course from my camera at Frank Pont's wonderful site.

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