Secondary courses

[Matthew Runde]

Many famous courses (especially in GB+I) have what are often viewed as "secondary" courses next to them.  St. Andrews has the New Course, the Jubilee Course, etc.  Lahinch has the Castle Course.  Ballybunion has the Cashen Course.

How do these courses compare with their more famous neighbors?  They're built on land that's probably very similar, so it would seem as though they could be fun to play.

[Tom_Doak]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

[Jon Spaulding]

LACC South is quite sporty, a few different looks, and a far less ball busting alternative to the North.  The property is not as rugged as it's counterpart, and the footprint is far more compact.

Hopefully they will approve the plan that's up on the wall. I'm not certain of the intent of the "look", but I would hope that they would attempt to restore the Fowler version, creating a truly distinct look from the pending adjacent masterpiece .

[Matt Day]

how do the other seven courses at Pinehurst rate against number 2?

[Matthew Runde]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Tom, that's very interesting.  What is it you like about those in particular?

[Sean_A]

I spose of the true (you can't count places like Sunningdale & Walton Heath because the new courses are just as good as the old courses) second courses out there that I have seen Portrush Valley has to be one of the best even though I detest all the drop shot par 3s which is most unusual for Colt.  I think Saunton West is just as good if not a bit better than the Valley.  After these two, the only one I rate is Burnham's Channel Course 9 holes), but it is too narrow with a decent breeze so it is well behind the other two even though it has a few corking holes.  I spose Merion's West course is another one worth mentioning, but I didn't get a good feel for the place.

I was left truly unimpressed with the second courses at Dornoch, Troon, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Cruden Bay. 

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Hi Tom,

I have been trying to find old images of the Eden Course before the changes. Which holes were removed and where were they.
Is the current 1st hole used to be the 3rd hole of the old layout?

Cheers
Ben

[Mark_Rowlinson]

There's an interesting second course at Ipswich, which is run by the club as a pay-and-play for townspeople. I have a feeling that Littlestone runs New Romney in a similar way. Royal County Down's second course is very much an old man's course, although it has some nice holes in the dunes at the far end. I believe both Lanark and Nairn have separate children's courses - would there were more of them!

[JNC Lyon]

OAK HILL WEST.  Personally, I think it is much more fun than the more famous East Course.  The greens are more interesting and the terrain more wild.

[Ally Mcintosh]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Hi Tom,

I have been trying to find old images of the Eden Course before the changes. Which holes were removed and where were they.
Is the current 1st hole used to be the 3rd hole of the old layout?

Cheers
Ben

Hi Ben,

If you search, there's a very good thread on here showing an overhead with the old routing... Many people mistakenly presume that it was a straight 4 hole swap with the loss of the old 1,2, 17 and 18... But there were quite a few other changes to accomodate this...

A genuine second course (albeit nine holes) is at Portmarnock... makes for a good day out playing 27 but most people don't even consider the yellow nine...

[Mark Pearce]

Many seem to consider Berkshire Blue to be secondary to the Red and it's an excellent course.

I'm a fan of Gil Hanse's Craighead course at Crail.

[Steve Salmen]

Good call on Craighead Mark.  I would play Formby before Royal Birkdale.  I thought it was a lot more fun.  Unfortunately I have not played any other courses in that area.

[Tim Martin]

Westchester CC South course is not as tough as its big brother(West)but every bit as fun. Walter Travis had a great site for both routings.

[Dan Boerger]

Winged Foot East is an outstanding compliment to the West course IMO.

It's been discussed here -- perhaps ad nauseam -- but the West Course at Merion is a great second course. It's got that compact Merion feel, but is far less demanding and full of character. The 5th hole is one of my favorite holes of all time.

[Bill_McBride]

I spose of the true (you can't count places like Sunningdale & Walton Heath because the new courses are just as good as the old courses) second courses out there that I have seen Portrush Valley has to be one of the best even though I detest all the drop shot par 3s which is most unusual for Colt.  I think Saunton West is just as good if not a bit better than the Valley.  After these two, the only one I rate is Burnham's Channel Course 9 holes), but it is too narrow with a decent breeze so it is well behind the other two even though it has a few corking holes.  I spose Merion's West course is another one worth mentioning, but I didn't get a good feel for the place.

I was left truly unimpressed with the second courses at Dornoch, Troon, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Cruden Bay. 

Ciao

I thought #18 at the Valley made up for the drop shots, great finisher.  And #6 is hardly a drop shot, slightly uphill at 237 yards.  I opened with 5 pars    and then ran afoul of #6.   I agree 100% that Portrush Valley is the best second course anywhere.

[Sean_A]

I spose of the true (you can't count places like Sunningdale & Walton Heath because the new courses are just as good as the old courses) second courses out there that I have seen Portrush Valley has to be one of the best even though I detest all the drop shot par 3s which is most unusual for Colt.  I think Saunton West is just as good if not a bit better than the Valley.  After these two, the only one I rate is Burnham's Channel Course 9 holes), but it is too narrow with a decent breeze so it is well behind the other two even though it has a few corking holes.  I spose Merion's West course is another one worth mentioning, but I didn't get a good feel for the place.

I was left truly unimpressed with the second courses at Dornoch, Troon, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Cruden Bay.  

Ciao

I thought #18 at the Valley made up for the drop shots, great finisher.  And #6 is hardly a drop shot, slightly uphill at 237 yards.  I opened with 5 pars    and then ran afoul of #6.   I agree 100% that Portrush Valley is the best second course anywhere.

Ace

#s 3, 11 & 18 are drop shotters and none are particularly good imo.  #3 and 11 just seem plopped down without any rhyme or reason like Colt was desperate for two more par 3s.  In fact, the 11th is a run killer.  What a stretch of holes spoiled a bit by the this drop shot.  An odd contrast with the 6th and 15th which are both good holes.  I especially like the 6th in combo with the 5th - what a great pairing of holes in that holler.    

Can you tell I am not a fan of the drop-shot?  I can cope with one, maybe two if they are exception, but three is taking the piss.

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

I spose of the true (you can't count places like Sunningdale & Walton Heath because the new courses are just as good as the old courses) second courses out there that I have seen Portrush Valley has to be one of the best even though I detest all the drop shot par 3s which is most unusual for Colt.  I think Saunton West is just as good if not a bit better than the Valley.  After these two, the only one I rate is Burnham's Channel Course 9 holes), but it is too narrow with a decent breeze so it is well behind the other two even though it has a few corking holes.  I spose Merion's West course is another one worth mentioning, but I didn't get a good feel for the place.

I was left truly unimpressed with the second courses at Dornoch, Troon, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Cruden Bay.  

Ciao

I thought #18 at the Valley made up for the drop shots, great finisher.  And #6 is hardly a drop shot, slightly uphill at 237 yards.  I opened with 5 pars    and then ran afoul of #6.   I agree 100% that Portrush Valley is the best second course anywhere.

Ace

#s 3, 11 & 18 are drop shotters and none are particularly good imo.  #3 and 11 just seem plopped down without any rhyme or reason like Colt was desperate for two more par 3s.  In fact, the 11th is a run killer.  What a stretch of holes spoiled a bit by the this drop shot.  An odd contrast with the 6th and 15th which are both good holes.  I especially like the 6th in combo with the 5th - what a great pairing of holes in that holler.    

Can you tell I am not a fan of the drop-shot?  I can cope with one, maybe two if they are exception, but three is taking the piss.

Ciao

I don't get #18 as a drop shot, could be wrong but it seemed pretty level across that valley and nothing like the two at #3 and #11.  I agree about #11, it was out of place in that excellent string of holes, a good example of a connector that doesn't work.

But we do agree on what a fun course that is.  We couldn't get on the big Dunluce course but I was happy as could be playing the Valley.  I loved those little doglegs coming home.

[Matthew Petersen]

I thought Torrey Pines North was better than what I had expected based on the way the Tour pros beat it up every year. It has as many nice views as the South does.

[Tim Nugent]

I used to think MPCC Shore course was the "2nd" course to the Dunes course - Now I feel the tables may have been turned.  What say you?  And are there any others out there that have upstaged their big brother?

[David_Tepper]

The Ocean Course at the Olympic Club (circa 1980-82) was a lot of fun to play, especially for this mid-teen handicapper. It had a much more open, links-y feel than the Lake Course and it was shorter as well. The three par-4's that were located where the Cliffs Course now sits were spectacularly scenic. It also had a few nice bits of quirk.  

[jonathan_becker]

I had to go to Florida for work right after Thanksgiving this past year and stopped by World Woods for 2 days to play.  I had full intentions of playing Pine Barrens the entire time, but a huge group of 16 pushed me over to the Rolling Oaks for 1 of my 3 rounds.
The starter said "Go on over and have a blast on the RO.  That's a damn fine course."  He wasn't lying.  I thoroughly enjoyed myself and was shocked at how the landscape was much different that PB, even though they're on the same property.  I'm glad I played it.

[Brian Freeman]

To me, the most underrated of the bunch is the Valley course at Royal Portrush.  I think it's wonderful, but most people never venture over to play it.

When I lived in St. Andrews (1982), my favorite course to go and play was the Eden course, before the changes were made to accommodate the practice facility.

Is Eden still worth the play with the changes?  Heading over in 7 weeks & will be in St Andrews 3 nights... have a course booked each day (New, Jubilee, Kingsbarns) but definitely potential on the schedule for a twilight round if it's worth it.

[Patrick Glynn]

I think it depends on how exactly the secondary course comes about. Take Bandon Dunes - each course is supposed to stand on its own merits & be outstanding whereas at Lahinch I know the 2nd course was built in the 70s largely to deal with the excess traffic on the Old course & for the older membership that wanted an easier walk.

Ballybunion on the other hand, got RTJ Senior in during the 1980s to design the Cashen. I played junior golf there & it is one difficult coruse to score on! Have heard that the Valley course at Portrush is very very good also.

[Jud_T]

Wentworth East is definitely worth a look IMHO as I hear is Olympia Fields South post renovation....As I've stated before, Ballybunion Cashen is not, particularly when put into relief vis-a-vis it's neighbor....

[Bill_McBride]

The hilarious one is in Green Lake, WI:  most people consider Lawsonia Links the second course to the Woodlands ....

Is there a secondary course to the Reverse Jans National?