[Jim Eder]

Tim,

I think the frequency of misses increased as I worked on my game less. A miss with a Ping will still leave me in a bunker, or a longer way from the pin etc. The chance at birdie is reduced (at least in my game) as my swing got sloppier. It lulled me into a false sense of security. I think you are right that if I am having a bad day I would prefer the forgiveness of my Pings but in order to have a better swing and therefore most likely a better game in the longer run I am with my forged irons. It can be a slippery slope in my opinion.

[JC Jones]

Unless someone does a definitive study on this issue, no one knows.

You seem to know

Do you think that forged clubs are "softer" than cast clubs? 

Is the steel in forged clubs different than cast clubs?  If so, is it "softer"?

Do you think that an impact into something softer gives off more or less vibration than an impact into something harder?

[Richard Choi]

You seem to know

No, I don't, since I have not done any test myself and have not read any studies on this matter.

Do you think that forged clubs are "softer" than cast clubs? 

I don't think, I KNOW that forged clubs are softer. I've taken Material Science Engineering courses, and I know the basics of steel manufacturing.

Is the steel in forged clubs different than cast clubs?  If so, is it "softer"?

Yes, steel used in forged clubs are softer, otherwise it would be more difficult to manufacture them.

Do you think that an impact into something softer gives off more or less vibration than an impact into something harder?

Yes, the vibrations would be different. But there are other factors in play.

First, the shape has probably greater effect on vibration differences than the softness of the steel.

Second, as I have said again and again, just because there is difference, does not mean that you can "feel" the difference, especially without sound. The study is saying that if you take a forged club with a shape that will create harsher sound, it is going to feel harder than a cast club with sound dampner that will give it a more pleasing sound.

[Tim Martin]

Tim,

I think the frequency of misses increased as I worked on my game less. A miss with a Ping will still leave me in a bunker, or a longer way from the pin etc. The chance at birdie is reduced (at least in my game) as my swing got sloppier. It lulled me into a false sense of security. I think you are right that if I am having a bad day I would prefer the forgiveness of my Pings but in order to have a better swing and therefore most likely a better game in the longer run I am with my forged irons. It can be a slippery slope in my opinion.

Jim-Thanks for the reply. I have had a set of Ping Eye 2 irons in my bag for more than 20 years and I can`t imagine switching them out. This is what interested me about your comments. I think I understand what you are saying but I still would rather have that 4 iron miss with the Eye 2`s than the blades. Isn`t that the real definition of "game improvement" clubs? Hope all is well.

[Jim Eder]

Tim,

Thanks, I think we are pretty much on the same page. I played Eye 2s and ISIs and liked both a lot.  No doubt the misses were better. I am not sure they are better on pure shots and I think they are harder to work the ball.  I just had the issue that as the years passed I got sloppy and now and got away with more. Knowing I got away with more I think may have affected my confidence as well causing me to play a little poorer and I wasn't working as hard and therefore my swing wasn't as good. Now that I am back using forged irons I have to swing at it better and I feel like I work harder, am swinging at it better and having more chances.  Of course, I am lucky that I get to play a lot of golf instead of once a week or less. My concern is that longer term issue. If things are a bit too easy we humans tend to slack off a bit.  Of course, Hogan is my hero if you couldn't tell. 

[Tyler Ince]

Wow really liked reading through this thread again and seeing how it moved to sound vs vibration. Very interesting input all around. But still not sure what I am going to do!

[Matt_Ward]

Hard to beat Miura irons -- expensive as can be and take time to get them since limited # are created.

The Mizuno line is also tough to beat -- I am a set of MP-67's and when hit properly the feeling is tough to beat.

The key is being able to hit them consistently to get the desired result.

The Eye-Twos, as pointed out by others, provide a much greater elasticity on mishits.

[JESII]

I thought the whole idea of golf club technology was to reduce elasticity...



Tyler,

I hate to ask this at this point but I can't figure out what your switching from or to...are you going from forged to cast? Or the other way around?

In either event, how they look is more important than how they feel/sound...find a set with a good looking 8 iron.

[Matt_Ward]

Forgot to mention -- Epon is also getting plenty of movement for their quality offerings.

[Ryan Taylor]

Mizuno MP 14's are money. Check out eBay. You may be able to find a set in good condition w/ DG S300's for under $250.

[Jason Walker]

Richard-
great info--from someone who knows what they're talking about!

However, you may have just ruined the hopes and dreams of all the 12 h'cappers on golfwrx.com who love their forged Mizuno blades with pured and tipped tour-proto KBS's for all the feel and workability and their monogrammed buttery soft Scratch 56's for touch shots around the greens.

(disclaimer--I like both brands...)

Back to the original question:  I had Titleist 680's for a long time, but the 2010 AP2 is the greatest iron of all time.  Blades are in the back-up bag in the trunk.   Truth be told, the major reason I stuck with blades for as long as I did is I hate offset irons and the vast majority of cavitys had tons.

[Bill Seitz]

For me I'm not sure the big difference was blades vs. cavity backs necessarily, but rather forged vs. cast.  I grew up hitting a set of Wilson Staff Dynapowers, circa 1973 or so (the year I was born).  My first set of new clubs was a set of Wilson Staff Progressives in 1995.  A few years later, while working at a golf course, I picked up a set of Mizuno T-Zoid pro-forged on the cheap, with Sensicore shafts.  Those were a revelation.  I've been a Mizuno guy ever since.  I'm now hitting a mized set of MP-60s 3-6, and MP-32s 7-PW.  I bought those with Sensicore shafts as well.  I've tried cast clubs in the past, and they just felt too hard.

Most important, though, is getting fitted.  I'm constantly amazed that people will buy clubs off the rack at retail prices.  You wouldn't buy a $500 suit without being measured and getting a tailored fit.  Why pay almost twice that much for golf clubs without getting fit? 

[PCCraig]

For me I'm not sure the big difference was blades vs. cavity backs necessarily, but rather forged vs. cast.  I grew up hitting a set of Wilson Staff Dynapowers, circa 1973 or so (the year I was born).  My first set of new clubs was a set of Wilson Staff Progressives in 1995.  A few years later, while working at a golf course, I picked up a set of Mizuno T-Zoid pro-forged on the cheap, with Sensicore shafts.  Those were a revelation.  I've been a Mizuno guy ever since.  I'm now hitting a mized set of MP-60s 3-6, and MP-32s 7-PW.  I bought those with Sensicore shafts as well.  I've tried cast clubs in the past, and they just felt too hard.

Most important, though, is getting fitted.  I'm constantly amazed that people will buy clubs off the rack at retail prices.  You wouldn't buy a $500 suit without being measured and getting a tailored fit.  Why pay almost twice that much for golf clubs without getting fit? 

Bill:

I agree with you about the Mizuno T-Zoid Pro's. An old boss had used them dispite being a Titleist guy and I had hit them a few times and really liked them. I bought two sets in late 2001 when Edwin Watts was selling them for ~$300 each as Mizuno was discontinuing them. I wore through those two sets over the next 8 years and went back to the MP-14's.

However, when it comes to forged cavity backs the original T-Zoid Pro stands up to anything out there right now.

[Alister Matheson]

In the early 1990s  Slazenger made  Seve Ballesteros  Blades these were beutifull to look at with a very thin top edge and superb feel when struck correctly .   

[JMEvensky]

In the early 1990s  Slazenger made  Seve Ballesteros  Blades these were beutifull to look at with a very thin top edge and superb feel when struck correctly .   

A set of these (1-iron included) is 10 feet from me as I type this.

I'll have to take your word about the superb feel--I rarely struck them correctly.

[JC Jones]

I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175.  If only I were good at golf......

[Lou_Duran]

I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175.  If only I were good at golf......

I seldom buy clubs any more, but recently I purchased my first club ever on Craigslist, a Ping G15.  I went to have it reshafted and discovered it was a conterfeit.  Of course, the seller won't return my calls and messages so I've reported him and the club on Ping's online fraud section.  The next step is sending a referral to the FBI which Ping tells me is serious about pursuing this sort of crime.  Stupid me!

Regarding blades, this thread prompted me to check my 2010 stats which showed that while I am finding more than 50% of the fairways, I am hitting less than a third of the greens.  I've become quite short of the tee which means that I have longer approaches, but the GIR seems out of whack.

So, I may be retiring my Apex blades at the end of the year in favor of my exiled TaylorMade TPs which were reshafted with Apex 4s.  Steve Lang ran the specs on them and they were all over the place, so I am thinking about reshafting again.  My driver swing speed ranges from 90-100 mph depending on how I am feeling.  Any suggestions on new shafts?

[JC Jones]

Chris Johnston is the shaft man but back when I was selling clubs I would recommend a good player like you get Rifle 5.0s.  I've always found, and maybe I'm wrong, that the Rifle's were the best at getting the ball up in the air and providing for a more boring (not tiresome) trajectory.

You are a good enough player Lou that you could probably put the TP's in in the 3-6/7 and keep your blades for the 8-PW as long as the TPs aren't significantly longer causing a big game in your yardages.

[Chris Johnston]

Chris Johnston is the shaft man but back when I was selling clubs I would recommend a good player like you get Rifle 5.0s.  I've always found, and maybe I'm wrong, that the Rifle's were the best at getting the ball up in the air and providing for a more boring (not tiresome) trajectory.

You are a good enough player Lou that you could probably put the TP's in in the 3-6/7 and keep your blades for the 8-PW as long as the TPs aren't significantly longer causing a big game in your yardages.

JC - you know your stuff!

Lou - If you like Dynamic Golf, you can also go with ProjectX - PX is both constant weight and frequency matched.  The regular rifle family is great for distance control, consistency and feel.  I would definately reshaft in the 5.0 to 6.0 range and absolutely ensure that the shafts match through the set.  Go to an expert craftsman so that he can put you in a shaft that also matches the head weights you have.   There are so many good shafts out there, with the proper consult, you will find a great fit for you.

Play well!
 

[Michael Moore]

[When Tiger signed his first Titleist contract he was playing a mixed set of Mizuno MP-14 and MP-29s.  His Titleist blades were Mizunos with a Titleist brand on them.

JC -

What time frame are you referencing? My understanding was that he played Mizuno irons until late 1997, when he switched to Titleist? Are you saying that he played for an entire year (turning pro in 1996 through late 1997) with a Titleist stamp on his Mizunos?

[JESII]

I hate speculation as much as the next guy, but I'm going to do it...from memory, Tiger was absolutely playing a forged blade that was not available from Titleist for a number of years...it may have been Mizuno from the outset, although I would more likely believe that it was just a Mizuno club with Titleist markings. Mizuno would be fine with this because they never want to pay anybody anyway and everyone on the inside would see this as proof that the Mizuno clubs are the best. I feel like it took a few years before Titleist actually produced a forged blade in Tiger's model...am I wrong on that part?

[John Kavanaugh]

One of the great things about buying a set of irons from www.scratchgolf.com besides helping out a great friend and benefactor to many on this site, is that you can get your shafts SST Pured.  I love the heads on my EZ-1's but give a ton of credit to the puring of the shafts for my recent fine play.  

It is hard to explain the feeling you have driving to a course knowing the only barrier you face is your own stupidity.  This can be achieved through the purchase of perfectly constructed fitted clubs.  Fitness or practice be damned.

If you choose to buy golf clubs from eBay your barrier of stupidity is so high the quality of construction becomes moot.

[Tim Martin]

I am cruising the Charlotte Craigslist and someone has a set of MP 37's w/ X-100's for $175.  If only I were good at golf......

I seldom buy clubs any more, but recently I purchased my first club ever on Craigslist, a Ping G15.  I went to have it reshafted and discovered it was a conterfeit.  Of course, the seller won't return my calls and messages so I've reported him and the club on Ping's online fraud section.  The next step is sending a referral to the FBI which Ping tells me is serious about pursuing this sort of crime.  Stupid me!

Regarding blades, this thread prompted me to check my 2010 stats which showed that while I am finding more than 50% of the fairways, I am hitting less than a third of the greens.  I've become quite short of the tee which means that I have longer approaches, but the GIR seems out of whack.

So, I may be retiring my Apex blades at the end of the year in favor of my exiled TaylorMade TPs which were reshafted with Apex 4s.  Steve Lang ran the specs on them and they were all over the place, so I am thinking about reshafting again.  My driver swing speed ranges from 90-100 mph depending on how I am feeling.  Any suggestions on new shafts?

Lou-If you can get your hands on a true G15 take the plunge as it is a pleasure to hit. Ping.com has a pretty accurate online fitting process which you can then demo before buying. The online suggestion proved to be the perfect match for me on the first try. Nothing but good results since I put it in the bag. Sorry about the bad experience with Craigslist.   

[Lou_Duran]

If you choose to buy golf clubs from eBay your barrier of stupidity is so high the quality of construction becomes moot.

JK,

Should I assume that buying from Craigslist decreases my "barrier of stupidity" (making me more directly stupid)?  

JC and CJ,

Thanks for your input.  Historically, the amount of money I've spent on clubs and technology have not correlated with my performance.  I guess I need to think about all this some more.

Thanks Tim.  It never occured to me that I could be buying a counterfeit club.  I've had good luck with Ping's WRX (?) department in the past and your suggestion (+ my recent experience) makes total sense.  As the old adage goes: "if it is seems too good to be true it probably isn't".   

[JC Jones]

I hate speculation as much as the next guy, but I'm going to do it...from memory, Tiger was absolutely playing a forged blade that was not available from Titleist for a number of years...it may have been Mizuno from the outset, although I would more likely believe that it was just a Mizuno club with Titleist markings. Mizuno would be fine with this because they never want to pay anybody anyway and everyone on the inside would see this as proof that the Mizuno clubs are the best. I feel like it took a few years before Titleist actually produced a forged blade in Tiger's model...am I wrong on that part?

Sounds about the same as my recollection.  Then again, there are apparently some people on this board who feel pretty strongly that it never happened.  I don't really care either way.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()