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Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« on: July 11, 2024, 09:43:02 AM »
I had the pleasure of playing the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge Golf Course and the Fairmont Banff Springs Golf course last week.  Experiencing these two great courses brings my total of Stanley Thompson golf courses played to 3 (I have previously played the Cape Breton Highlands Links).  After playing the two courses in the Canadian Rockies, I was just blown away by Thompson's skill in placing and designing bunkers.  I have always considered Dr. MacKenzie to be the top of the field in his bunkering work, but now I am thinking Stanley Thompson might be his equal.  Other than MacKenzie, is there a golf architect who is more of a bunkering genius than Thompson?


TS

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2024, 01:36:55 PM »
Thompson use of humour in his bunkering has appeal. Dragons, Mucklemouth Meg, Cleopatra etc.
Any other architects do something similar? If so be nice to see examples.
Atb

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2024, 06:36:06 PM »
Unpopular opinion incoming:
Thompson has some real cool courses, and bunkers. However, when people start talking about how cool his bunkering is because they are vaguely shaped like something I kind of roll my eyes. He perhaps did mean to shape his bunkers like Cleopatra, but to pretend I care, or even notice, is another matter.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2024, 07:01:29 AM »
Unpopular opinion incoming:
He perhaps did mean to shape his bunkers like Cleopatra, but to pretend I care, or even notice, is another matter.


There's definitely "sea themed notes" on the 10th hole renovation plan. But after spending a bunch of time looking at all the information and open day images and post renovation images, I always thought Cleopatra was a legend rather than a "shaped" reality. By the way, I have an image with a small pond on the front left corner!


I think some worked like Muckle Mouth Meg and the Octopus, because it works at ground level. Other feel forced. I get your comments. I find I'm conflicted on a few of them too.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2024, 07:03:59 AM »

I had the pleasure of playing the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge Golf Course and the Fairmont Banff Springs Golf course last week. 


Huge photo, but a great look down at the course from Patrick Koenig


[/size]His web site is: www.pjkoenig.com/


« Last Edit: July 14, 2024, 07:39:44 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2024, 07:30:12 AM »
The bunker work at Banff Springs is Stanley Thompson’s high-water mark for his architectural expression. He spent the early part of the decade experimenting with his own work and learning from other architects. He was slowly evolving from his early simple forms to a more complex approach to bunkering. He slowly added fingers of grass, high flashes of sand and even islands to develop more elaborate bunker compositions, but for the most part everything remained smaller in scale.

Given the massive scale of Jasper he was forced to pivot. He cleared wider to see more of the mountains and experimented with a grander scale of architecture to fit the scale of the setting. The course fit the scale, but the large simple bunkers had golfers feeling a little lost in the size of everything. It was an important step in the process to Banff, but not as successful as the work at Banff Springs would be.

At Banff Springs he figured out what could be done differently. He cleared wide again to create a dramatic backdrop to the golf. He planned his bunkering in the same grand scale to create grand carry angles and wide swings in the fairway lines. But this time he built the bunkers differently. He turned to more clusters of bunkers. He built them in various shapes and sizes, rather than building a single massive bunker. But he even took this even a step further, buy returning to the small-scale detailing he had used before Jasper Park. This brought the bunkers back to human scale and create incredibly elaborate forms. The human scale detailing made the golfer much more at home and in scale with the bunkers and surrounds. He managed to still design on a grand scale, but have the work remain relatable to each individual player. This was a master class of how to design golf courses in the mountains.

It was so successful that CN brought him back to Jasper Park to renovate the bunkering and add more of the flourishes and details seen in Banff Springs.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2024, 07:37:08 AM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Greg Hohman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2024, 02:48:15 PM »
Thanks, Ian, for introducing me to the work of Patrick Koenig!

newmonumentsgc.com

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2024, 05:30:11 PM »
Finally heading that way in August as Banff Springs (staying and playing there) has been on my radar for a long time.  I expect to be wowed by the site and the bunkering. Very anxious to experience it live vs through photos. 

We all know RTJ Sr worked with Thompson as well as with Cornish before they both headed off on their own.  They all designed A LOT of golf courses.  If I recall correctly RTJ did the most followed by Cornish with Thompson doing the least (but still Thompson did over 170 designs around the world though far majority ~ 140 in Canada). Interestingly, they all used and designed bunkers differently despite training and working together for many years.  This was presumably to differentiate themselves.  Doubt it had to do with their different volume of courses but as we know, it is hard for anyone to get the details and nuances right with so many projects underway.  As with most any Architect, you generally can tell where/what courses they spent the most time on.  Banff Springs is supposed to be one of Thompson’s best.  Golf courses evolve but anxious to get there to see the present day course.

Ian,
How much of the design has changed in a significant way since it opened for play?

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2024, 08:23:19 PM »
The biggest change is the routing. They built an additional 9 holes and moved the clubhouse. You now start on what used to be the 5th hole. During a GCA Outing 20 years ago Ben Cowan Dewar arranged for us to play the original routing, teeing off from the elevated tee right in front of the Hotel over the River; what a dramatic difference in the pacing of the holes! Those first 3 holes eased you into the round and the last 5 holes, playing back to the Hotel was a stern test, finishing with the original par 4 18th, a very dramatic way to end the round; again with the Hotel rising behind the green. I believe one hole was changed to accommodate the new Clubhouse.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2024, 10:22:50 AM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2024, 10:07:37 PM »
I believe one hole was changed to accommodate the new Clubhouse.


The original 5th hole green is now the 1st green on the 3rd nine. New green on the current opener of the Thompson 18 and corridor was reduced to fit two holes where there was one.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2024, 07:33:15 PM »
The bunker work at Banff Springs is Stanley Thompson’s high-water mark for his architectural expression. He spent the early part of the decade experimenting with his own work and learning from other architects. He was slowly evolving from his early simple forms to a more complex approach to bunkering. He slowly added fingers of grass, high flashes of sand and even islands to develop more elaborate bunker compositions, but for the most part everything remained smaller in scale.

Given the massive scale of Jasper he was forced to pivot. He cleared wider to see more of the mountains and experimented with a grander scale of architecture to fit the scale of the setting. The course fit the scale, but the large simple bunkers had golfers feeling a little lost in the size of everything. It was an important step in the process to Banff, but not as successful as the work at Banff Springs would be.

At Banff Springs he figured out what could be done differently. He cleared wide again to create a dramatic backdrop to the golf. He planned his bunkering in the same grand scale to create grand carry angles and wide swings in the fairway lines. But this time he built the bunkers differently. He turned to more clusters of bunkers. He built them in various shapes and sizes, rather than building a single massive bunker. But he even took this even a step further, buy returning to the small-scale detailing he had used before Jasper Park. This brought the bunkers back to human scale and create incredibly elaborate forms. The human scale detailing made the golfer much more at home and in scale with the bunkers and surrounds. He managed to still design on a grand scale, but have the work remain relatable to each individual player. This was a master class of how to design golf courses in the mountains.

It was so successful that CN brought him back to Jasper Park to renovate the bunkering and add more of the flourishes and details seen in Banff Springs.


Ian, the rationale for clusters of bunkers to maintain human scale over a large area is very helpful to me. First time I recall hearing this and makes me more sympathetic to that treatment. Ty
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stanley Thompson - Bunkering genius
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2024, 10:34:14 PM »
There is a Thompson course against the gorge, called Whirlpool. It is in Ontario, between Niagara Falls and Niagara-On-The-Lake. They are doing work there this year, but I am not certain if it involves restoration, or drainage, or what.

https://www.niagaraparks.com/visit/golf-course/whirlpool-golf-course/

ScoreGolf has this tidbit

https://scoregolf.com/sponsored-content/led-by-niagara-parks-the-historic-whirlpool-golf-course-is-receiving-a-modern-makeover/

and reveals that our friend, Ian Andrew, is leading the restorative effort.

Whirlpool was Thompson's final, original 18-hole project.

It is a municipal course, owned and operated by Niagara Parks.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

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