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Tony_Muldoon

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An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« on: May 02, 2010, 03:36:00 AM »
02 05 2010


Dear Pat

Good to see you posting on GCA once more. I am writing this in the hope of getting you to express here some of your thoughts on a “Modern Links” course and in particular your ethos in designing The European Club.  I would add that I have played Portsalon (twice), Rossapenna both courses, Ballyliffen Glashedy and The European (twice), all of these in 2008 . You may recall we met and you kindly spent 40mins chatting to me and drove me over your course in a lovely old Nissan (?) saloon.

You said you were working on a book on designing Golf courses but it would be interesting to hear more about your ethos rather than all the detailed way in which you apply it - I will look out for the book. I believe you have tried to take an evolved approach to Links golf and from our conversation and what I’ve read (I would pick out these as some of your thoughts about the design process:
(Not necessarily in any order)
1 the game has changed and the ball is played through the air these days and hence the traditional running ground game is of less importance to the good modern player.
2 the distances the modern player hits the ball has radically changed and any new course needs to cope with that.
3 You believe a good shot should get a fair reward.
4 You have chosen to incorporate features that deceive the golfer and e.g. that “the hungry eye” will lead even the best golfer into making mistakes e.g. the 16th at TEC a dogleg where the green is visible from the tee will fool all too many golfers “even the best guys”.
5 You choose to maintain The European Club with lush green fairways. This means that the ball will not run on landing. This helps to restrict the distance hit and to prevent balls running off into the rough if it lands on the fairway. 
6 Your courses highlight elevation change and do not rely on a lot of the micro undulation that typify older links courses.   This does allow the player to hit their normal shot if they are on the fairway.  The challenge is mainly to play the wind and the elevation changes highlight the difficulty of getting this right.
7 You talk a lot about wind and its effect on the high ball that golfers hit today.  I remember you talking about you wanting to add a back tee at 17th TEC and how you came to decide to make it higher as the hole plays into the prevailing wind and you wanted to give a sense of uncertainly about if and where the ball would ever land.
8 You place a premium on accuracy and hitting the fairways.  Frequently at the edge of the fairways the contour will change abruptly via a dune and this wil be covered with thick rough. I cannot recall any significant use of ‘semi-rough’.
9 One of your favourite means of defending the green is to raise it above the level of the fairway (or to introduce a valley just in front) and to place a single bunker into the face of the upslope; in this way you encourage the aerial approach.
10 Your greens tend not to feature significant amounts of internal contouring. 
11 The three main courses I’m basing this on TEC, Sandy Hills and Galshedy are all on ‘extreme’ duneland and so some of what I have observed is based on your response to the land available to you.  However I can’t recall (m)any blind shots EXCEPT where the player has driven to a particular part of the fairway (usually the wrong part).  I.e. you have rejected the blindness still so often seen on older links e.g. RCD.

Of the more traditional courses that might be said to have inspired TEC I would think of Birkdale with its routing between the dunes and Turnberry as it played in last year’s Open.


I would welcome your comments on the above points, I’m sure you’ll put me straight if you feel anything needs to be corrected.

You also make a point of singling out the”non thinking” golfer (I hope I have your terminology correct).  Do you see thse golfers at all levels because in my experience the people who like The European Course are low handicappers?

I must add that The European Club divides opinion like no other course I’ve played.  I know two people whose opinion I respect, both low handicappers who hold it in the highest regard; one recently told me “it's a masterpiece”.  Magazine raters also tend to be category one handicap holders. I have also met many others who dismiss the course as too hard.  Have you any information of the amount of repeat business you secure as it would be most interesting to compare your figures with say Kingsbarns.  My guess is that you have a small but devoted following of low handicappers who return relatively frequently and a greater no than average of single plays for such a famous course, particularly among the higher handicappers?


Thanks for your time and your golf courses.

Yours

Tony Muldoon
 
PS I read in Richard Phinney’s Book Links of Heaven that you are a long term resident of DunLoaghaire.  Were you a member of the Club and did you ever play with Sally or Richard Muldoon?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sean Walsh

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 06:58:10 AM »
For what it's worth I congratulate you Tony on adding a little decorum to this board.  I hope Mr Ruddy answers in kind, this could evolve into one of the better threads on here in recent times, I for one am looking forward to it. 

 


Mike Policano

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 08:55:52 AM »
Tony, nice piece.  The book you may thinking of, is Pat's "Fifty Years in a Bunker".  If you haven't read it, you will enjoy it since you have spent some time with Pat.  Last time I was at TEC, my buddies went to hit balls at the range and I stayed in the golf shop putting back and forth listening to some of his stories.

Pat's stories are priceless.  He should do another book just of his stories.

Adam Clayman

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 09:27:39 AM »
As an aside, and to expound on what Mr. Huntley wrote on another thread, as long as someone's notions, philosophy and ethos, are justified, we can discuss the details. This site is always getting comments about a mindset or brawl like behavior, when inreality, when justified, opinions are respected. They may not be agreed but isn't that what makes good discussion.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 10:37:37 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Shane Wright

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 10:41:11 AM »
Tony - excellent post.  That is one of the reasons I wanted to be a part of GCA, for posts and info like this. 

I happen to love TEC, partly because Pat Ruddy throws his opinions and passion into it.  Many may not agree, but I value his opinions and passion.  It would be awesome if he adds to this conversation.

Many may not have this dream, but I know that in the back of some of our minds, it would be a tremendous opportunity to be able to pour your heart and soul into a project like the TEC, or Bandon, or Ballyneal, or Prairie Club, or the many others that have come out in recent years.

So for those who play the course once, bash it, bash Ruddy's brashness, etc - to each their own.  But I would prefer to walk in his shoes first and pour my heart and soul into a project like this before I'm willing to call someone out who has spent a good portion of his life putting together his legacy to the golfing world.


Tom_Doak

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 11:11:06 AM »
Tony:

Where did you pick up all of Pat's philosophy on design?  Did you find it on a web site or interview, or is that all from observation?

From what I've seen of his work (two or three courses, not including The European Club), it's a fairly accurate summary of the philosophy behind his courses.

However, I disagree with about half the points you listed -- including nos. 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10.  I'd be happy to debate any of those with you.

JNC Lyon

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 11:52:10 AM »
On point number one, isn't links golf meant to be played along the ground down to turf conditions and wind?  Hasn't it always been this way?  Won't it always be this way, matter how far the ball goes?  I think the conditions, not the equipment, have contributed more to making golf an aerial game in recent years.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 12:13:56 PM »

This is a bit like going to the theatre and waiting to see if the guy in the tux will come out front to announce "In tonight’s performance there is a change form the printed program and the part of Hamlet will be played by..." ;)

Mike that book is several years old and concentrates on the story of The European Club. I meant to pick up a copy when I went back and I will have a look for it.  Pat said he was in no hurry to complete it but he was working on a new book on design.  Can you scan and post pictures of the land prior to construction?   
Pat is full of stories.  Amongst many others he told me he had delivered telegrams on a bicycle as young man.

Tom, Richard Phinney and others have written of their time with Pat.  I really thought he'd done an interview for this site but can't find it.  I'm sure there used to be web site by Richard where I first read of Pat, again I can’t find it.  I must be clear that based on my readings, time with Pat and my playing observations those points are my attempt to define some of his approaches to 'modern' links architecture.

John I'm hoping Pat will say if I'm representing him fairly and if I am clarify why he thinks those things. One thing is clear he's been intimately involved with the game up to the highest levels for longer than I've been alive and has witnessed those changes first hand. 
Let's make GCA grate again!

JNC Lyon

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 12:16:59 PM »

John I'm hoping Pat will say if I'm representing him fairly and if I am clarify why he thinks those things. One thing is clear he's been intimately involved with the game up to the highest levels for longer than I've been alive and has witnessed those changes first hand. 


Tony,

One think I've learned as a history major: the farther away you are from an historical event, the better perspective you have on that event.  Objective historical analysis is much more reliable than memory.

I agreely await Pat Ruddy's thoughts as well.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Melvyn Morrow

Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 12:53:23 PM »
JNC

I trust I have permission to make a comment on this forum as I understand that some do not like others to disagree with them openly, seems to be rather poor show on a discussion forum to challenge someone's comment.

To answer your question 

No is a straight answer, the weather and wind conditions tend to be a major factor. Did you not notice The Open a couple of years ago when Greg Norman took control of the Links in those poor weather conditions, yet as the condition improved he fell away allowing the younger players with their aerial game to come through.

The Gutty was at times hard to get airborne but that was more the nature of the ball. The modern ball is more advanced thanks to technology over the old Gutty.

Your final judgement IMHO is wrong, it’s the new technology that HAS created distance and the aerial game which is also more prevalent on inland courses.   

Humbly apologise for daring to make a comment

Melvyn

PS You said ‘Objective historical analysis is much more reliable than memory.’ Only if you have all the relevant documents, but lets not forget that newspapers and magazines of the day also reported on such events – that’s not a modern process.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 12:57:00 PM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

JNC Lyon

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 01:01:23 PM »

JNC

I trust I have permission to make a comment on this forum as I understand that some do not like others to disagree with them openly, seems to be rather poor show on a discussion forum to challenge someone's comment.

To answer your question 

No is a straight answer, the weather and wind conditions tend to be a major factor. Did you not notice The Open a couple of years ago when Greg Norman took control of the Links in those poor weather conditions, yet as the condition improved he fell away allowing the younger players with their aerial game to come through.

The Gutty was at times hard to get airborne but that was more the nature of the ball. The modern ball is more advanced thanks to technology over the old Gutty.

Your final judgement IMHO is wrong, it’s the new technology that HAScreated distance and the aerial game which is also more prevalent on inland courses.   

Humbly apologise for daring to make a comment

Melvyn

PS You said ‘Objective historical analysis is much more reliable than memory.’ Only if you have all the relevant documents, but lets not forget that newspapers and magazines of the day also reported on such events – that’s not a modern process.



It sounds like your Greg Norman argument supports my thesis.  He relies less on the aerial game, so when the wind is up, he does well.  When the wind is down, the aerial game dominates.  The variable there is the condition, not the equipment.   Doesn’t a windy day on firm links turf still favor the ground game?

On historical analysis:  the farther away you get from an event, the more relevant documents you have on that event.  Furthermore, newspapers and such only report the day’s events.  They do not draw big conclusions about history.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Melvyn Morrow

Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »


JNC

Its The equipment that has allowed and improved the aerial game, not the conditions.

Melvyn

Ben Stephens

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 02:00:25 PM »
JNC/Melvyn,

I was at that Open at Birkdale 2 years ago when Greg Norman was leading - the weather was the coldest and windiest July day I have ever experienced in the UK! There are a few players that adapt their game for the bad weather like Sandy Lyle. The sun did come out and the wind sort of calmed down on the last day which was perfect for Harrington as Birkdale is a bit like the European.

Greg Norman shot the best round ever in the Open an 63 at Turnberry in 1986 where the next best score was 69 in gale force conditions - he had a putt on th last for a 61 and ended up with a 3 putt! I was too young to remember this but have been fascinated by this even the tents in the tented village was blown away that year. Also Greg hit the best round by an Open champion at Sandwich in windy conditions.

This is similar to what Tom Watson did last year - he knew how to play that course in windy conditions. I have become more and more familar on how to play Hunstanton in Norfolk the different wind directions and which is the ideal shot to play in whatever conditions. It also knowing how to play the course in whatever conditions are given.

The young golfers nowadays are 'too pampered' and biased toward an aerial game rather than develop as many shots to have in their bag to help out with any particular conditions. Melvyn's your nemesis who loves having birdies as his disposal has developed the biggest shot making armour apart from accuracy that he never plays Harbour Town! and plays courses which suits him.

George Pazin

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 02:05:46 PM »
Melvyn's your nemesis who loves having birdies as his disposal has developed the biggest shot making armour apart from accuracy that he never plays Harbour Town! and plays courses which suits him.

Guess he picks the major venues...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Ben Stephens

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 03:03:36 PM »
Melvyn's your nemesis who loves having birdies as his disposal has developed the biggest shot making armour apart from accuracy that he never plays Harbour Town! and plays courses which suits him.

Guess he picks the major venues...

Looks like Quail Hollow will be off the list for a while  ;D

George Pazin

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 03:16:21 PM »
 :)

Nicely done.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jay Flemma

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 04:50:16 PM »
That was a great letter, Tony.  You set a great example for all of us all the time.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Ben Stephens

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 04:58:16 PM »
Tony,

Alongside James Boon (who has one of the best retaining information database on golf course architecture that I know) you would defintely write a great book or articles on a number of subjects regarding Golf Course Architecture (Adam Lawrence please note this!).

Cheers
Ben

Pat Ruddy

Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2010, 06:19:27 PM »
Hello Mr Muldoon
Thank you for your courteous enquiries.
It was nice to share some time with you.  But your recollections or understandings of what I  said or meant to convey are not
entirely accurate.  I hope that my answers below will clarify matters somewhat.
I'm afraid I am not acquainted with your family although we have lived in the same town for so long.  I am a private sort of person and have also been away working a lot doing over 30 course design jobs since 1972 ...and it is just a fact that so few people want you to build a course for them near your own home. My golf-writing involved a lot of travel also.
My primary home is right alongside thesecond green on the old Dun Laoghaire course which is just now being ploughed up for housing,. I will miss the joys of my "loo with a view"
where one could while away part of a Sunday morning on the throne reading a golf book and watching the neighbours suffer with a weird variety of shots to, around and on that second green!
I do hope you visit The European Club again someday and see how it has been evolving.  I think you might like some of what you find.

To answer your questions to some extent:
1 the game has changed and the ball is played through the air these days and hence the traditional running ground game is of less importance to the good modern player?
By and large that is obviously right when speaking of the elite players.  They seek to overpower the course with A to B and B to C in direct lines being their primary game plan.  Of course, when the wind blows everything can change.  Also, it is a different game for normal folks and for the older guys like me.  So, that is why all my links including The European Club leave the way open to play the running shot.  Runners to greens are on here at holes 1, 3, 4, 5,7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16 and 17 ... albeit with some demands on skill ... and I know that is more generous than most of the older links.

2 The distances the modern player hits the ball has radically changed and any new course needs to cope with that?
Any new course which wishes to contend with tournament play or be fit for purpose for tournament play.  I have attended big tournaments many times annually since I started as a golf-writer in 1964 and seen over twenty championships played on courses I have designed and it has moved from driver and fairway wood or long iron to a game that is hardly recognisable.
To be great for all golf purposes a modern course needs to be over 7,000-yards.  Of course, it must be superbly designed in detail as well.   Shorter courses can be good or even great little 'uns but cannot be better than best of own class. 

3 You believe a good shot should get a fair reward?
Yes. 

4 You have chosen to incorporate features that deceive the golfer and e.g. that “the hungry eye” will lead even the best golfer into making mistakes e.g. the 16th at TEC a dogleg where the green is visible from the tee will fool all too many golfers “even the best guys”?
Yes.  This is an old device which can be brought into play in many ways.  Bad eyesight, a bad nervous system, animal instinct and greed are all amongst the elements which can cause the player to come to grief.

5 You choose to maintain The European Club with lush green fairways. This means that the ball will not run on landing. This helps to restrict the distance hit and to prevent balls running off into the rough if it lands on the fairway?
Totally incorrect.  I favour fast fairways and slopes feeding into hazards but not into rough.  We never have lush fairways.  They will be green when it rains a lot....as it can do on the Emerald Isle, as you must know, that Emerald Isle name didn't come from outer space..  Besides, we keep them just the greenish side of brown.  Of course, the fellow who wants to hit a modern ultra- high ball and have it run when descending in a fairly perpendicular parabola can't expect it to run forever.

6 Your courses highlight elevation change and do not rely on a lot of the micro undulation that typify older links courses?  This does allow the player to hit their normal shot if they are on the fairway.  The challenge is mainly to play the wind and the elevation changes highlight the difficulty of getting this right?
I wouldn't see things like that.  A lot of guys who find themselves having to play sidehill, downhill and uphill stances on my courses wouldn't think so either. But this whole issue, the relationship between striking position and target, could occupy a book in itself.

7 You talk a lot about wind and its effect on the high ball that golfers hit today.  I remember you talking about you wanting to add a back tee at 17th TEC and how you came to decide to make it higher as the hole plays into the prevailing wind and you wanted to give a sense of uncertainly about if and where the ball would ever land?
Close but not complete memory.  Without going too deep into my thinking, which is my main "tool in trade" and not something I necessarily want to expound on here, it is obvious that the golf ball spends over 98% of its time in the air and the condition of the air and the inter action between it and the ball decides most of one's golfing fate.

8 You place a premium on accuracy and hitting the fairways?  Frequently at the edge of the fairways the contour will change abruptly via a dune and this wil be covered with thick rough. I cannot recall any significant use of ‘semi-rough’?
It would be a travesty if the player who sprays the ball all over the place should win.   Do you think?   Contrary to your memory we have dune bases shaven at holes 1, 3, 4, 8, 10, 11, 17 and 18 which help to direct balls back to safety.  Our fairways are in the main very wide now, except in the eyes of the sprayer of shots.  Harrington and McIlroy won championships here without any bad experiences.  Our high-handicap members enjoy life too.

9 One of your favourite means of defending the green is to raise it above the level of the fairway (or to introduce a valley just in front) and to place a single bunker into the face of the upslope; in this way you encourage the aerial approach?
Not  true.   We have relatively flat or very flat to fairway approaches on holes 4,5, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13 and 16.  Of course we have swales and dips despite being perceived as flat!  I'm glad someone noticed we aren't all flat!

10 Your greens tend not to feature significant amounts of internal contouring?
Not so.  What I said is that even a blind man can see those modern 6-foot sweeps and read the green accordingly.  More subtle slopes can test the eyes more.  That said ... we have absolutely no flat greens and I would think that we are very lively in parts of greens 1, 3 (wow), 4, 8 (wow), 9, etc etc.

11 The three main courses I’m basing this on TEC, Sandy Hills and Galshedy are all on ‘extreme’ duneland and so some of what I have observed is based on your response to the land available to you.  However I can’t recall (m)any blind shots EXCEPT where the player has driven to a particular part of the fairway (usually the wrong part).  I.e. you have rejected the blindness still so often seen on older links e.g. RCD.?
Blind golf isn't nice for a person playing a course for the first time. No good saying its not blind second time around because the world travelling golfer may not get back to many courses a second time!  Blind golf is dangerous on the modern busy golf course with a growing number of impatient and reckless players.   Of course, a degree of blindness can be exciting but it is not good in excess. 

12.  You also make a point of singling out the”non thinking” golfer (I hope I have your terminology correct).  Do you see thse golfers at all levels because in my experience the people who like The European Course are low handicappers?
I don't know how extensive is your knowledge of those who play at The European Club.   All that I can say is that if it were true that it is only the people who are low handicappers who like The European Club links I would be a very poor man now that we are 18-years open for play!   Low handicappers are not always big spenders!  In the chests of most average golfers beat the hearts of lions. But there are some wimpish chaps about, too, who wish that the fairway was thirty yards to the left on one hole and forty yards to the right on the next hole. 

I think that answers your questions.   I hope you find them elucidating to some small degree.  I will not take supplementary questions on an open forum such as this.
I have spent many years working-up my thoughts on golf and I will share many of them in some books up ahead. This isn't meant to be big-headed .... but there is no imperative that any artist or workman should have to reveal all the secrets of his trade to all-comers no matter how charming they may be.
Nor do I wish to discuss my financial affairs here no more than you might like to discuss yours here.  Suffice it to say that we are doing nicely and have achieved my objective:  Create a golf course of my own, make it as good as I can, enjoy studying it (only 24-years at the task come June this year, so we are just beginning), have it pay for itself with a bit to spare (it does that), do not crowd the place and so take much of the enjoyment out of the game as is the way at so many places which see golf purely as a business (nothing wrong about that for them  but it isn't how I want it), make sure that I and my family and members enjoy it.  Anyone else who comes along is welcome providing they come in peace. We do not have security at the gate to keep people out ..or in.  We do not demand networking to secure a game on our links.  That is the Irish way: Welcoming of polite and considerate people.  We would hope that visitors enjoy their experience here and we make them welcome as I did you and others. If they don't like it or us we would hope they would go away rejoicing that they have about 30,000 other courses to play on without having to worry about me or bother me....so, the odds are heavily in their favour, or maybe not if they are unhappy folk anyway.  Thankfully most people we meet are happy as they come and seem happy with their time here.

Come calling again.  We'll have a chat,
Pat Ruddy


Ian Andrew

Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2010, 06:35:43 PM »
Pat,

That was a very good read.
It's always a pleasure to read about what another architect is thinking.

I was grateful for the opportunity to play The European Club, which I enjoyed a great deal, my only regret was that you were away at the time and I couldn't tell you in person.

All the best,

Ian

David Lott

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2010, 06:42:59 PM »
Mr. Ruddy:

I am just a plain old golfer who has mostly lurked here for years to learn some things about golf. I've learned quite a bit, none of which would make me any less delighted to play your course(s) given a chance. Of course the only chance I get I must give myself. I will try to look you up if ever I get there.
David Lott

Ben Stephens

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2010, 06:54:45 PM »
Great reply Pat!


Its is interesting that you prefer hard and running fairways when the images of the course shows it being lush and green. Also forgot that it rains so much in Ireland unlike the Norfolk coast where I recently played Hunstanton with brownish green fairways.

Would welcome your opinion on other courses such as the new Dun Laoghaire by Hawtree, Portmarnock, Royal Dublin, the Island etc.

RCD does have a hell of a lot of blind shots! Luckily I had a caddy to guide me around the course which makes me think would i have enjoyed it without the caddy's guidance. Sandwich has a number of blind shots but not as extreme as RCD.

Would love to play the European Club sometime in the next few years.


Cheers
Ben

Jon Nolan

Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2010, 08:06:57 PM »
Its is interesting that you prefer hard and running fairways when the images of the course shows it being lush and green. Also forgot that it rains so much in Ireland unlike the Norfolk coast where I recently played Hunstanton with brownish green fairways.

The photos presented here lately don't represent TEC accurately in my opinion.  It's definitely browner, firmer, faster than the images would make it appear. 

My longest drive ever, anywhere, is on TEC #13 and I normally play at ~4200-5000 feet.  It was a good poke with a nice low draw (perfect for that hole) but it ran forever and finished up at roughly 350 yards. 

I love the course.  I know don't have the GCA chops of even 1% of the 1500 members here but that doesn't really matter I think.  It registers high on the recently discussed "fun" scale.  It's a blast to play, the views are gorgeous, the Ruddys treat you special and if I have lost a lot of balls there it hasn't stuck in my memory.

Pat's receiving a bit of stick here.  I don't know the man personally but he is very gracious to guests and genuinely interested in their experience being positive.  On a visit about five years ago my step-father wanted to come along with me on my round.  He is a stroke victim and has no use of his left side.  Walking 50 feet is difficult for him.  Pat, at no charge, gave him the use of a buggy and allowed him to ride while I walked.  Later that day when my wife and children game to pick us up, Pat's daughter (daughter-in-law?) treated my son and daughter to an orange drink and a chocolate bar. 

I won't pretend I know the ins and outs of what's gone on behind the scenes here but count me a fan of TEC and Pat Ruddy.  Fun course.  Nice guy.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2010, 12:12:38 AM »
Very interesting reading, Pat. Thanks for taking the time to post that.

I'm hoping you might find time to give these few enquiries some consideration and perhaps find them worthy of a response.

1. Looking back to 1992 when you opened your links, what do you wish you knew then that you know now?

2. Were many fairways (4, 8 and 11 come to mind as candidates) significantly flattened from their pre-development topography?

3. There is rough likely to at worst result in a lost ball and at best require extrication with a lob wedge in close proximity to many greens (within 5m). Is this a reasonable penalty for so slight a miss, particularly on undulating land where the ball is likely to run and bounce significantly?

4. Does the reliance on thick, long rough flanking fairways and most greens limit the recovery options a golfer is able to use when playing TEC?

5. On which holes do you believe a golfer is presented with the temptation to challenge/flirt with a driving hazard for a better approach angle, and how have you designed such holes with a view to allowing the lesser player to take a "B or C line" that allows them to play away from the hazards?

6. Why are bunkers/water necessary on both sides of the driving zone on most of the two- and three-shot holes?

7. A grass bunker was recently built in the middle of the 16th fairway, between the fairway bunkers that sit on both the right and left sides of the driving zone. All those hazards are at a very similar distance. What was the thinking behind the construction of that new hazard?

8. What is the purpose of the man-made mounds/"pimples" on the low side of several greens (8 and 10 come to mind, both very appealing natural greensites, IMO)?

9. Which 3-5 courses that you've not worked on are your favourites?

10. Was the decision not to build a par four shorter than 360 yards a conscious one?

11. The TEC course guide makes several mentions of creating a stern test. How have you sought to make the course difficult for the very best golfers while maintaining playability for less talented golfers?

Thanks in advance.
Scott

Brian Phillips

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Re: An open letter to Pat Ruddy
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 01:13:35 AM »
Pat,

Wonderful, wonderful reply.

Thank you very much.


I think that answers your questions.   I hope you find them elucidating to some small degree.  I will not take supplementary questions on an open forum such as this.


Scott,

As you can see, Pat does not want to answer anymore questions so I am wondering why you posted the questions you listed?  ???  Are trying to annoy him?   Or do you only read what you want to read?   ;)
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf