[Geoffrey_Walsh]

From a USGA article:

"Coupled with his golf successes was the fact that Neville was a real estate salesman for Morse’s firm, the Pacific Improvement Company. So although Morse in 1916 had asked at least six other persons to draw up designs for the new course, he saw Neville as the logical choice for the task.

If Neville harbored any fears when he began his Pebble Beach design, they were well hidden. He asked Douglas Grant, a wealthy sportsman and fellow California Amateur champion, to help him, especially with the bunkering. The two golfers walked the course site for weeks before they settled on their final design.

“It was all there in plain sight,” Neville told journalist Herbert Warren Wind.

Neville sought to place as many holes as possible beside the ocean. This was done by creating a figure-8 routing, a concept that remains unchanged despite course alterations made over the years by such names as H. Chandler Egan, Frank (Sandy) Tatum and Jack Nicklaus. Originally, the fourth, sixth through 10th and 17th and 18th holes abutted the ocean. The total went to nine holes when land was acquired from a private party to rebuild the par-3 fifth hole so it, too, could overlook water. It debuted in 1998."

Any idea who the other 6 names were?  Have any other PB routings ever been uncovered?  Was Grant ever involved in any other design projects?

[Adam Clayman]

Geoffrey, Can't help out with Grant, but, there is a story about the property that is now the fifth hole. The original owner was not a fan of Mr. Morse. When asked to sell his parcel his price was too high for Morse to consider. (30k?) So, 89 years they paid 9 million for it. Of course Pebble Beach Co. had the two other buyers for the other half of the property, where the houses sit, so it didn't end up costing them the whole 9 mil. One report said, in typical PBC fashion, they almost screwed up the sale at the last minute.

 

[Kevin_Reilly]

The Official History of PB quotes Morse:  "There were two outstanding golf architects in those days - Charlie Macdonald, a wealthy man and first U.S. Amateur Champion, and American; and Donald Ross in England.  Mr. Macdonald couldn't be persuaded to do the job at Pebble Beach, and Donald Ross was in the English army, so I decided to take a chance on two amateurs and have never regretted  it."

A footnote to the above says "Never a student of the architects, Morse may have confused Ross with Alister Mackenzie.  Records show that Ross was in the States at the time, while Mackenzie served in the British Army."

The book contains a page on Grant, but there is no mention of other courses associated with him.

[Jay Flemma]

can we have a link to the usga article?

[Tom MacWood]

The Official History of PB quotes Morse:  "There were two outstanding golf architects in those days - Charlie Macdonald, a wealthy man and first U.S. Amateur Champion, and American; and Donald Ross in England.  Mr. Macdonald couldn't be persuaded to do the job at Pebble Beach, and Donald Ross was in the English army, so I decided to take a chance on two amateurs and have never regretted  it."

A footnote to the above says "Never a student of the architects, Morse may have confused Ross with Alister Mackenzie.  Records show that Ross was in the States at the time, while Mackenzie served in the British Army."

The book contains a page on Grant, but there is no mention of other courses associated with him.

Wouldn't Colt have been the bigger name than Mackenzie in 1916? He'd also been doing some high profile work in the States in the years leading up to 1916. Colt wasn't in the English army however, though he was Deputy Commissioner of Ministry of Food in the Southwest District, and Justice of the Peace for Berkshire, and presumably would have been unavailable.

I believe Raynor was in California in 1916.

[Garland Bayley]

I read a recent article that said Raynor was his first choice since McDonald wouldn't do it. But then Raynor died. MacKenzie was his next choice, but being strapped for cash he went with the two amateur architects. I believe it was Rawlinson's recent Atlas is where I read this.

Edit: Disclaimer. I may be confusing part of the story of Cypress Point in here, and I don't have the Atlas available to check.

[David Stamm]

I read a recent article that said Raynor was his first choice since McDonald wouldn't do it. But then Raynor died. MacKenzie was his next choice, but being strapped for cash he went with the two amateur architects. I believe it was Rawlinson's recent Atlas is where I read this.

Edit: Disclaimer. I may be confusing part of the story of Cypress Point in here, and I don't have the Atlas available to check.

Garland, you are confusing the two. Raynor died about a decade later.



Macwood,  either I'm having a memory lapse, or I have never heard this, but where and why would Ranyor have been here in 1916?

[Tom MacWood]

David
In 1916 or 1917 Raynor proposed a plan for the Olympic Club which was never executed. I believe at the same time he did the same for a club in Santa Barbara as well.

[TEPaul]

"Wouldn't Colt have been the bigger name than Mackenzie in 1916?"


Tom MacWood:

That's just another in a long laundry list of illogical remarks of yours on here. Perhaps Colt would have been a bigger name over here than Mackenzie in 1916 but Colt never returned to America after 1914!

I wonder why it is you never even consider those kinds of obvious facts when you spout your now suspect endless questions which in your mind must be to make some unsustainable point which unfortunately you never seem to be aware is unsustainable or why!

[TEPaul]

I think both Neil Hoteling and David Outerbridge have essentially proven that Sam Morse contradicted himself and blatantly in print and a number of times on a few historical points! The subject of Marion Hollins was definitely one of them!

[TEPaul]

"I believe Raynor was in California in 1916."


Tom MacWood:

Do you then believe that Raynor may have been doing architecture on his own in 1916 or before? I ask you that because you made a big deal on another thread of the fact that Macdonald said in his autobiography that Raynor had not done anything on his own until 1917 and/or after? Of course that was just one of a number of contentions you've made on this website with no historical basis in fact whatsoever, other than your complete misreading of what Macdonald actually wrote in that vein in his autobiography.

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