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Patrick_Mucci

When and why did American Golf
« on: April 27, 2010, 10:57:35 PM »
Transition to FLAT fairways ?

Another thread caused me to reflect on the almost universal absence of undulating fairways in modern American golf.

Is it a concession to "fairness"

A desire to make the game "easier"

Why did American golf shy away from natural fairway undulations to graded, FLAT fairways ?

Would the retail golfer reject them ?

Chris Flamion

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 11:06:32 PM »
Pat-

Just a quick look shows one of the oldest courses in the country (Chicago Golf Club) having almost no undulations whatsoever.   If the earliest of courses don't have heavy undulations then the architects who played these courses would never think to include them but rather flatten out the land they were given.

For the more modern design I think it is RTJ thing where he build every course to be a stern, fair test type thing.

Chris

Phil_the_Author

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 11:12:48 PM »
Pat,

I'm wondering if it was a combination of things. First, that most of the courses in America, by and large, came into existence AFTER 1920 when the cost of golf course construction greww following WW I and, even more so, that the length of golf courses grew radically longer seemingly overnight. The longer the course the tougher the walk... Flatter fairways make for easier walks on a long course.


Jim_Kennedy

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 12:08:57 AM »
Pat,
I'd have to dig it up, but somewhere I saved an article (or maybe it was an ad) for a very large fairway roller, the type you'd see rolling pavement, that was used at Shinnecock to 'level out the fairways" and make for a better playing surface.

That was around 1905. 

Machinery and changing tastes probably had quite a bit to do with the grading of fairways.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 12:11:13 AM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Peter Pallotta

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 12:18:21 AM »
Patrick - some late night musings:

A manifestation of the game-mind of man, the demand for competition but only on his terms and in an arena of his choosing.

An instance of an all-too-human (and profane) misunderstanding of an ancient (and sacred) text: “Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain.”

A (bland) expression of the collective desire to be the captain of one's ship, the sole agent of one's success or failure.

An element of the tract-housing ethos of golf course architecture, offering the (fleeting) comfort of sameness and a (false) sense of egalitarianism.  

The democratic spirit, misapplied.

Another (but more modest) Industrial Revolution, with the glorified power of machines made to serve the primary goal of financial gain.

An example of smug self satisfaction covering up (sheer) laziness and (thinly veiled) contempt.

A paucity of imagination.

A conscious rejection of all that has come before, including the wise teachers and accomplished practitioners of craft, lest a light shined on them should leave you in darkness.

The result of a value system/heirarchy of values being imported wholesale and without due consideration from one world (that of professionals, where it makes sense and serves a purpose) and applied to another world (that of amateurs, where it doesn't).  

An unfortunate aesthetic lapse of judgement and taste, in which the symmetry of the man-made (building) is applauded and extolled in any setting, even the most diametrically opposed (i.e. nature).

Peter
  

Adam Clayman

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 06:49:22 AM »
Both west coast top resorts feature undulating fairways. So, the retail golfer appears ready to accept them.

The majority of golfer's who frequent the range more than the course might be one reason flat is pervasive.

I like Peter's first musing. The game mind of man is the underlying justification. Loss of shotmaking by a sportsman is another.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom MacWood

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 06:53:39 AM »
I agree with those who point to the development of modern earth moving equipment as a factor, probably in combination with the greater influence landscape architecture curriculum had in developing golf architects.

Bill Brightly

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 08:03:12 AM »
I definitely think the average American golfer would reject undulating fairways as "unfair." I think many have a mechanical approach to the game. This means that when standing on the tee, our goal is to "hit it between the rough lines" and we should be rewarded with a flat lie if we do. Many would deem it "unfair" to be "penalized" with an uneven stance and scream bloody murder if a ball was re-directed off the fairway.

Before I went to Ireland and before I became a GCA junkie, I must admit that I would have been in the group of whiners. Pat, you might have played Crystal Springs? While there is much to dislike about this course (mandatory to keep carts on path and mounds between path and fairway so you can't see your ball when you get there) I remember complaining about the "unfairness" of the fairway undulations... and swore I'd never play there again. Hmm, maybe I need to give it another shor?

Mike Cirba

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 08:04:09 AM »
Pat,

You've been spending too much time in florida. ;)

Bill_McBride

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 08:34:07 AM »
It's the little micro contours that really make courses interesting, and those are the ones that are hard to grade with a D8.

I loved the rig and furrow contours at Alwoodley.  It would be tough to replicate those with modern machinery.

Tim Nugent

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 08:44:55 AM »
I definitely think the average American golfer would reject undulating fairways as "unfair." I think many have a mechanical approach to the game. This means that when standing on the tee, our goal is to "hit it between the rough lines" and we should be rewarded with a flat lie if we do. Many would deem it "unfair" to be "penalized" with an uneven stance and scream bloody murder if a ball was re-directed off the fairway.

Before I went to Ireland and before I became a GCA junkie, I must admit that I would have been in the group of whiners. Pat, you might have played Crystal Springs? While there is much to dislike about this course (mandatory to keep carts on path and mounds between path and fairway so you can't see your ball when you get there) I remember complaining about the "unfairness" of the fairway undulations... and swore I'd never play there again. Hmm, maybe I need to give it another shor?

Although there are probably several reasons, I have to think Bill is on the right track here. Perhaps if they weren't called FAIRways, golfers wouldn't expect a level lie as the reward for hitting the fairway.  Rub of the Green is a somewhat foreign concept in the US.  God forbid if a ball landing in the fairway hits a hump and is deflectd into the rough.

Several technical things were probably also at play here... the heavy clay soils make drainage paramount, little humps and bumps determental to drainaage patterns. Also, underground drainage tile was expensive and used mainly to bleed-off underground springs.  Builders used equipment made for farming and road contruction and adapted it to golf course construction.  I remember as a kid seeing a huge, flat square (about 20'x20') thing pulled by a tractor, with a maze of channels in it,  It was called a Land-Leveler.  

Finally, when any earthwork was needed, the loam topsoil had to be stripped/stockpiled and replaced after the underlying clay was graded.  Replacing it with those old dozers was not as easy as with todays, which are finger-tip responsive and have blades that twist and turn at every angle - thus making it much easier to follow undulating landforms. And from a design standpoint, ;ong, smooth contours were the easiest way to do a earthwork take-off in the pre-computerized 3-D model estimating systems.

As I've stated in other posts, you can't divorce golf course architecture from that of the equipment on-hand at the time that was used to build it.  It's easy to sit here in 2010 and wonder "why did those idiots design it that way".  But, until you have tried to shape earth with an old, clunky, cable driven dozer, it's hard to understand.  From the maintenance side, those equipment manufacturers designed equipment that functiioned best on what was already built.  If an architect came home from across the pond and managed somehow to construct rumpled fairways, he would probably get skinned by the super that had to somehow maintain them.  Imagine how much damage a old, heavy tractor - before the days of oversized "turf-tires" would do pulling a heavy gang of steel tire reel mowers when going through the wet low spots.

Form follows Function - only in this case it's not so much the function of play but rather the function of constructability and maintainability,

BILL M - you type faster  ;D  Bt as today's equipment is much better and smaller, I think you will be seeing much more.
Coasting is a downhill process

Garland Bayley

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 10:18:40 AM »
Isn't there really a simple answer to this? They have always been that way. Weren't the Brits were criticizing us from the get go about this among other things? The simple truth is that the vast majority of American courses are not built on wind contoured sand.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Terry Lavin

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2010, 11:28:07 AM »
I have a sneaking suspicion that the impetus for this pernicious trend was the equally pernicious development of the golf cart.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Tim_Cronin

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 12:26:02 PM »
That and farmland, rather than rumpled linksland, being used for courses. And extra points to Terry for the use of pernicious. One of my favorite words, especially when combined with "pin placements."
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

RJ_Daley

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 01:00:03 PM »
Patrick - some late night musings:

A manifestation of the game-mind of man, the demand for competition but only on his terms and in an arena of his choosing.

An instance of an all-too-human (and profane) misunderstanding of an ancient (and sacred) text: “Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain.”

A (bland) expression of the collective desire to be the captain of one's ship, the sole agent of one's success or failure.

An element of the tract-housing ethos of golf course architecture, offering the (fleeting) comfort of sameness and a (false) sense of egalitarianism.  

The democratic spirit, misapplied.

Another (but more modest) Industrial Revolution, with the glorified power of machines made to serve the primary goal of financial gain.

An example of smug self satisfaction covering up (sheer) laziness and (thinly veiled) contempt.

A paucity of imagination.

A conscious rejection of all that has come before, including the wise teachers and accomplished practitioners of craft, lest a light shined on them should leave you in darkness.

The result of a value system/heirarchy of values being imported wholesale and without due consideration from one world (that of professionals, where it makes sense and serves a purpose) and applied to another world (that of amateurs, where it doesn't).  

An unfortunate aesthetic lapse of judgement and taste, in which the symmetry of the man-made (building) is applauded and extolled in any setting, even the most diametrically opposed (i.e. nature).

Peter
  


Peter, I think you have enough perspective and thoughtful commentary on GCA to write a very fine book...  Not to mention a very fine book, in general!
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RSLivingston_III

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 02:04:01 PM »
Would mowers of just after the turn of the century have had anything to do with it? The magazine ads show the rotary heads as being fairly long and I wonder how they would have handled anything but the mildest of contours?
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 02:08:41 PM »
Pat,
I'd have to dig it up, but somewhere I saved an article (or maybe it was an ad) for a very large fairway roller, the type you'd see rolling pavement, that was used at Shinnecock to 'level out the fairways" and make for a better playing surface.

That was around 1905. 

Machinery and changing tastes probably had quite a bit to do with the grading of fairways.


Jim,

Shinnecock has some of the most undulating fairways you'll find in golf.

If those fairways are "leveled out" I would have hated to see them prior to the process.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 02:13:56 PM »
Pat-

Just a quick look shows one of the oldest courses in the country (Chicago Golf Club) having almost no undulations whatsoever. 

Chris,

Almost everything in the Chicago area is FLAT to begin with.
It's not known for its rolling countryside and hills, hence I wouldn't expect undulating fairways, especially when you consider the cost to construct them on flat land in those days.
 

If the earliest of courses don't have heavy undulations then the architects who played these courses would never think to include them but rather flatten out the land they were given.

What architects ?
CBM's work at NGLA would dispell any notion that FLAT fairways should be a fundemental design feature


For the more modern design I think it is RTJ thing where he build every course to be a stern, fair test type thing.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 02:17:59 PM »
Would mowers of just after the turn of the century have had anything to do with it? The magazine ads show the rotary heads as being fairly long and I wonder how they would have handled anything but the mildest of contours?


Ralph,

That's a great point.

Uneven, undulating fairways were much more difficult for those big gang mowers to cut,... evenly.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 02:21:11 PM »

Both west coast top resorts feature undulating fairways.

Which ones ?
I hope you're not going to cite Bandon, Mike Keiser's vision, as representative of golfers and modern golf over the last 6-7 decades.


So, the retail golfer appears ready to accept them.

As an occassional curiosity or a steady diet ?


The majority of golfer's who frequent the range more than the course might be one reason flat is pervasive.

I like Peter's first musing. The game mind of man is the underlying justification. Loss of shotmaking by a sportsman is another.

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2010, 02:40:35 PM »
This is going to be one of my next research projects, except it will be for the UK.
The Track Iron / early Niblick (these are the ones about the size of the ball) seem to be gone away some time around 1880-85 and the Rut Iron seems to have taken over (they look like a smaller head Mashie). I think this is also the time "they" decided to dedicate courses to golf and not so much for public land. I can see where the first order of business would be to fill in the cart tracks. Reading late 19th century publications you can see how big a push there was to improve playing conditions.
I wonder if this was the actual start of pushing turf improvements.

"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

John Moore II

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 09:24:12 PM »
Pat-How flat are you talking about? Because I have played courses where every fairway was exactly flat because the land was dead flat and the water table was low, so they didn't have the resources to move a whole lot of land around to make them undulated. In that case, I haven't seen very many fairways like that. On the other hand, I haven't seen very many golf courses that had truly 'bumpy' fairways with little knobs and such throughout the fairway. I don't know when they might have transitioned. But it seems that is probably came from a change in expectations from American golfers from bumpy, Scottish fairways to new fairways that would let them hit better shots more often and lead to good shots being rewarded with good results. And it could be that not many American sites have had really unpredictable landforms, therefore, to avoid a course looking totally unnatural, the fairways were left mostly flat.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2010, 09:43:08 PM »

Pat-How flat are you talking about? Because I have played courses where every fairway was exactly flat because the land was dead flat and the water table was low, so they didn't have the resources to move a whole lot of land around to make them undulated.

JKM,

My mistake, I assumed a certain level of intelligence for those reading this thread. ;D

I'm NOT talking about naturally FLAT fairways being artificially massaged into undulating fairways, I'm talking about the process of FLATTENING naturally sloped, contoured and/or undulating fairways


In that case, I haven't seen very many fairways like that.

On the other hand, I haven't seen very many golf courses that had truly 'bumpy' fairways with little knobs and such throughout the fairway.
I don't know when they might have transitioned. But it seems that is probably came from a change in expectations from American golfers from bumpy, Scottish fairways to new fairways that would let them hit better shots more often and lead to good shots being rewarded with good results.

In other words, the dumbing down of the field of play to make it easier for golfers to hit their shots.


And it could be that not many American sites have had really unpredictable landforms, therefore, to avoid a course looking totally unnatural, the fairways were left mostly flat.

I can't accept your facts and/or your reasoning, but, you already knew that ;D


Jim_Kennedy

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Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2010, 09:45:20 PM »
Pat,
There isn't a roller made that will level out big undulations, but they wil level out all the little ones.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: When and why did American Golf
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 09:55:19 PM »
Pat,
There isn't a roller made that will level out big undulations, but they wil level out all the little ones.


Jim,

I can't see a roller used in that application.
I can see a grader being used.

A roller would seem to be dependent on the subsoil and how compacted it is ?

I can't see a roller leveling out undulations where the crest of the undulations are just 5-10 feet apart, and, the slope between trough and crest about half the distance.  That would take a really huge, really heavy roller.

It would seem that a grader/dozer would be the machine for the job.

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