[Patrick_Mucci]

The False front or similar configuration where the front of the putting surface slopes down to the fairway which continues its downward slope ?

As I examine older courses I see this arrangement more and more.

Perhaps it was primarily for drainage, but, from a playability impact it's enormous.

Marginal shots, mis-judged shots and mis-hit shots all pay the price when they interface with this feature.

The result is invariably a ball coming to rest well short of the target, leaving the golfer with a difficult chip, pitch or putt and the likelihood that a bogey or worse awaits.

In some cases the feature is subtle, almost unnoticeable, in other cases you see it and know the danger it presents, immediately.

It makes front hole locations even more challenging

To a degree, every elevated green has this potential.

It almost insures a dry putting surface in damp weather.

Is there a simpler feature that has a more significant impact on play ?

[Tony_Chapman]

Pat -- I haven't played a ton of these, but it does make it quite fun. And, I agree, I think you see it mostly at Golden Age courses. However, I did watch my brother putt for birdie on the first at Sand Hills and make 11. 

[jonathan_becker]

Pat,

 I've always thought that a flagstick cut just past a false front will increase a score and crush a man's spirit faster than any aspect of the course (not including hazards).  The greens don't need to be lightning fast, either.  For most players, the end result is a scoop with the putter and on to the next hole.

[Bill_McBride]

#17 at Littlestone, a 182 yard par 3 that plays a lot longer into the prevailing wind, has the most daunting false front I've seen lately.  

http://www.littlestonegolfclub.org.uk/Hole%2017.htm

[Mike McGuire]

Unfortunately the fairway short of false fronts on a few of our Langford greens was planted with bluegrass,  effectively negating a very cool feature.

[jonathan_becker]

I was just thinking about the course that I regularly play in regards to false fronts.

It's not even that a huge of a slope, but when the cup is cut on the front left portion of the first green, it's danger.  It's a reachable par 5 and I can't tell you how many times I've made par with 2 putts after hitting the green in two.

IMO, when the architect puts a false front on the opening hole, it can really mess with a player's head for the rest of the day.  Think about it.... when you fall victim to the FF on the first hole (initial putt downhill to start), you leave your next putt short back up the hill almost every time.  This results in drifting confidence for most players right off the bat.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
The elevated green itself, then the false front.

[Phil McDade]

Pat:

The false front was explored in depth in this thread:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37649.0/ (with some pics of severe false fronts at Milwaukee CC and several other courses)

which also references another thread that explores the idea.

Doak, among others, thinks they are over-rated.

[Jason Topp]

I would not say universally great but I do think they are terrific when used in moderation. We have 2 at my course. One is on a reachable par five and one is on a short par four. I have learned the hard way that my skill level requires me to bail out to the center of the green from 75 yards on the par 4 when the hole is in front. Despite this knowledge I am tempted to go for the pin every time.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Unfortunately the fairway short of false fronts on a few of our Langford greens was planted with bluegrass,  effectively negating a very cool feature.

Mike,

Yikes !

Was this an internal idea or was it recommended by an outsider ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would not say universally great but I do think they are terrific when used in moderation. We have 2 at my course. One is on a reachable par five and one is on a short par four. I have learned the hard way that my skill level requires me to bail out to the center of the green from 75 yards on the par 4 when the hole is in front. Despite this knowledge I am tempted to go for the pin every time.

Jason,

As to moderation, I believe that C&C used them on just about every hole at Hidden Creek and they seem to have turned out quite well.

In addition, it's not unusual to see them employed universally on a course since they serve a valid purpose when it comes to drainage.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The critical aspect of the feature I'm referencing is the impact on play created by the fronting slopes.

All too often this arrangement goes unnoticed unless it's pronounced.

One of the most subtle introductions of this feature in on the 2nd hole at NGLA.
Some of the most obvious on # 1, 8, 12, 13 and 14 at NGLA

Most golfers never see it.

A few years ago I mentioned their extensive use at Hidden Creek to TEPaul.
He was unaware of many of them, probably because C&C didn't find the need to make them so obvious.

My first question to Tom Doak and other design experts is as follows.
Where you have less than ideal soil, why wouldn't you want the green to sit above the surrounding terrain for drainage purposes ?

That slight increase in elevation is all that's need to create the desired impact on play.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I was just thinking about the course that I regularly play in regards to false fronts.

It's not even that a huge of a slope, but when the cup is cut on the front left portion of the first green, it's danger.  It's a reachable par 5 and I can't tell you how many times I've made par with 2 putts after hitting the green in two.

IMO, when the architect puts a false front on the opening hole, it can really mess with a player's head for the rest of the day.  Think about it.... when you fall victim to the FF on the first hole (initial putt downhill to start), you leave your next putt short back up the hill almost every time.  This results in drifting confidence for most players right off the bat.

I disagree about using them in moderation, I think they are great.  They immensely add interest into the approach shot, compared to if there wasn't a false front.  You always have to tell yourself to swing full to make sure you get it past the front.  Stone Eagle has nine of them, and like Jonathan says, the first two holes have huge false fronts, and many times a player’s confidence is ruined after a couple of three putts right of the bat.

[JMorgan]

I like the false front (on the green).  The beauty of the false front is how much it can be tuned or tweaked for different levels of play, whether by weather or man, it can be a help or a hindrance.

Another one of my "favorite features that has tremendous impact on play" and is fairly simple is a downhill or uneven lie in a lay-up or landing area.  More entertaining than sand.   

[RSLivingston_III]

I would add, pronounced elevation change and sideways sloping fairways.

[Anthony Gray]

  I think only in moderation. I have played some courses where it seemed every entry was a false front. I think they are overused.

    Anthony

[Jason Topp]

I would not say universally great but I do think they are terrific when used in moderation. We have 2 at my course. One is on a reachable par five and one is on a short par four. I have learned the hard way that my skill level requires me to bail out to the center of the green from 75 yards on the par 4 when the hole is in front. Despite this knowledge I am tempted to go for the pin every time.

Jason,

As to moderation, I believe that C&C used them on just about every hole at Hidden Creek and they seem to have turned out quite well.

In addition, it's not unusual to see them employed universally on a course since they serve a valid purpose when it comes to drainage.

Patrick:

If you play to nine pins over the edge of these fronts it gets old real quick.  I played an interclub match where the host club did that, with the hole within 4-6 feet of the edge.  I never want to repeat that experience.  With reasonable variety in hole locations the greens are enjoyable.

[Matthew Sander]

I would not say universally great but I do think they are terrific when used in moderation. We have 2 at my course. One is on a reachable par five and one is on a short par four. I have learned the hard way that my skill level requires me to bail out to the center of the green from 75 yards on the par 4 when the hole is in front. Despite this knowledge I am tempted to go for the pin every time.

Jason,

As to moderation, I believe that C&C used them on just about every hole at Hidden Creek and they seem to have turned out quite well.

In addition, it's not unusual to see them employed universally on a course since they serve a valid purpose when it comes to drainage.

Patrick,

I hope I'm not incorrectly interpreting Jason's view (Jason, feel free to berate me if necessary ), but I think he may have been asking for moderation in the use of the severe variety of false fronts. You mentioned Hidden Creek as an example where they have been used extensively, but according to photos (I haven't played HC so please correct me if I am wrong) they seem to be the more subtle variety. While there is indeed punishment for not executing the correct shot, the penalty is not as severe as it would be at ANGC's 9th or Plainfield's 11th. Also the more subtle variety can allow for more ground game options. The severe examples (where a bunker or 50 yd runoff awaits) seem to require the high soft shot. Nothing wrong with that, but a steady diet wouldn't provide much variety.

That said, I really like some of the more severe false fronts that are used on short par 4s where they can force strategic decisions from the tee (especially with a hole location tight to the false front). An example from a modern course is the 13th hole at The Raven @ Verrado (AZ). Here one could try to drive the green which may require you to negotiate the false front. If you're unsuccessful or simply try to drive as close as you can to the green you have a very difficult shot to the tight front pin. Maybe it is wiser to lay back off the tee to give room for a full wedge where spin and loft can leave you a reasonable distance even if you play somewhat behind the hole.
 

[Michael Whitaker]

Is there a simpler feature that has a more significant impact on play ?

Pat,

I think the "gathering" greenside bunker that you encounter in the UK is at least as significant, if not more so than a false front green. Misplaced shots seem to be drawn into them, often leaving one with only the option of pitching out sideways. I wish this feature were found more often on US courses. Most bunkers here have some type of rough around them preventing shots from rolling in... negating their true impact IMO.

Mike

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would not say universally great but I do think they are terrific when used in moderation. We have 2 at my course. One is on a reachable par five and one is on a short par four. I have learned the hard way that my skill level requires me to bail out to the center of the green from 75 yards on the par 4 when the hole is in front. Despite this knowledge I am tempted to go for the pin every time.

Jason,

As to moderation, I believe that C&C used them on just about every hole at Hidden Creek and they seem to have turned out quite well.

In addition, it's not unusual to see them employed universally on a course since they serve a valid purpose when it comes to drainage.

Patrick:

If you play to nine pins over the edge of these fronts it gets old real quick.  I played an interclub match where the host club did that, with the hole within 4-6 feet of the edge.  I never want to repeat that experience.  With reasonable variety in hole locations the greens are enjoyable.

Jason,

You're confusing daily course set up with architecture.
Please confine your comments to the architectural aspects.

Thanks

[Chris Flamion]

I think the false front is a tremendous feature.  I have played only one multiple times but each time it has forced the longest hitter in our group to lay up so he didn't face spinning a wedge back.

I can think of 2 holes at my course where an uphill approach would benefit from a slighly more sever front end of the green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Is there a simpler feature that has a more significant impact on play ?

Pat,

I think the "gathering" greenside bunker that you encounter in the UK is at least as significant, if not more so than a false front green. Misplaced shots seem to be drawn into them, often leaving one with only the option of pitching out sideways. I wish this feature were found more often on US courses.

Michael,

I agree, I'm enamored with "gathering" bunkers and how the surrounding terrain feeds balls into them.

The American architectural headset is, unfortunately, the antithesis of the "gathering" or "directing" nature of the topography that surrounds bunkers.

Most bunkers here have some type of rough around them preventing shots from rolling in... negating their true impact IMO.

Agreed,
I think it's one of the most distasteful uses of maintainance techniques there is.
Even the great GCGC has these obnoxious buffers on some, if not most of the bunkers that were just made to be "run" into

The cost to bring the fairway right up to the bunker isn't that significant, but, the whining about how unfair it is when a ball runs into a bunker or a water hazard is deafening.

Keep up the fight
Mike

[Jay Flemma]

I love the false front...it makes you think and execute.

[Tom_Doak]

Bill Coore is in love with false fronts.  It's one of the reasons he hates building USGA greens ... he likes to drape the front edge off the green, and it's really hard to build the well of the USGA green that way.  [I only know two guys who can do it with a dozer, and they both work for me.]  I remember watching Bill at The Warren Course marking the outlines of the green fronts and going back in the fairway to look at them and going back to the green to adjust them.

I am not such a big fan of them, as I discussed in depth on that earlier thread that Phil posted.  I have seen some HORRIFYING examples on modern courses, where a shot slightly short goes back down a ten- to twenty-foot slope ... there is a par-3 at Dismal River that leaps to mind.

[Carl Johnson]

War story.  My home course, Carolina Golf Club course in Charlotte, just hosted pre- and final qualifying for the Quail Hollow Championship that begins tomorrow.  In pre-qualifying on Thurs., April 22, the pin on no. 7, a par four, was tucked on the left just over the false front, the most dreaded location for club members.  The hole is listed at 448 yds., but it's a dogleg and plays much shorter (although uphill to the green).  Average score Thursday was 4.63, the highest relative to par of any hole on the course that day.  I watched any number of approach shots.  Anything in front of or near the pin ended up 10 to 20 yds. back down the fairway.  The only way anyone that I saw approach successfully dropped the ball dead 15 feet behind the hole, with no spin, and let it trickle back down a slope toward the hole from there.  I'm sure any number of qualifyers were playing the hole for the first time, and I marveled at those who could get the shot right.  Pro, amateur, the challenge is the same.  By the way, Billy Mayfair closed with birdies on 7, 8 and 9 (he had started on the back) Monday to lead all qualifiers with a 65.  The pin was friendlier on Monday and the average score was 4.23, not the hardest hole that day.

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