Woking! and Great Greens

[JNC Lyon]

I played Woking today.  I teed off at 3:30 PM and finished 32 holes before dark.  In that time, I saw a truly remarkable golf course.  The course is full of charm, fun, challenge and strategy from beginning to end.  The centerline bunkers and the rail line at the 4th make for a highly strategic golf hole.  The back-to-back long fours at 8 and 9 are tremendous.  The par three 2nd is a grand long par three.  The 14th green on the clubhouse terrace is quirky and brilliant.

I know everyone on the site who has played the golf course will step up to agree that Woking is awesome.  Therefore, I am not going to turn this into a "what do you think of Woking?" thread.  Instead, I'll put forth a broader statement for discussion:

As I played Woking, one feature stood out consistently: THE GREENS.  There is not a single uninteresting green on the golf course.  Most of the greens have tons of movement.  Greens at 12, 13, 15, and 18 probably would have been blown up by less-enlightened clubs.  One is guaranteed to face a handful of rolly-poly putts through the course of a round at Woking.  Even the subtle greens like the 1st, 4th and the 17th are standouts.  The greens are also great in the fact that they dictate play back to the tee.  Furthermore, the golfer will face every type of short game shot at Woking.  I hit flops, pitches, bump and runs, Texas wedges, and bunker shots of all shapes and sizes.

The greens at Woking put it well ahead of any heathland course on my trip.  I much preferred Woking to courses like Swinley Forest and Addington that, while being great courses tee to green, lacked something around the greens.  

Thus, my questions are:

Does a course with great greens always beat a golf course with less inspiring greens?

Will courses like Swinley Forest always be held back a bit because their greens are not as fun as courses like Woking, not matter how interesting it is tee to green?  

Finally, do the greens affect how interesting the course is tee to green?

[Mark Chaplin]

Jon - I'm not sure Swinley's greens are less inspiring, unfortunately in February they were sodden and the pins were in some wacky positions but 2,3,4,5,8,9,12,15 and 17 are pretty interesting. You must have scampered like a rabbit this afternoon!!

[Sean_A]

I played Woking today.  I teed off at 3:30 PM and finished 32 holes before dark.  In that time, I saw a truly remarkable golf course.  The course is full of charm, fun, challenge and strategy from beginning to end.  The centerline bunkers and the rail line at the 4th make for a highly strategic golf hole.  The back-to-back long fours at 8 and 9 are tremendous.  The par three 2nd is a grand long par three.  The 14th green on the clubhouse terrace is quirky and brilliant.

I know everyone on the site who has played the golf course will step up to agree that Woking is awesome.  Therefore, I am not going to turn this into a "what do you think of Woking?" thread.  Instead, I'll put forth a broader statement for discussion:

As I played Woking, one feature stood out consistently: THE GREENS.  There is not a single uninteresting green on the golf course.  Most of the greens have tons of movement.  Greens at 12, 13, 15, and 18 probably would have been blown up by less-enlightened clubs.  One is guaranteed to face a handful of rolly-poly putts through the course of a round at Woking.  Even the subtle greens like the 1st, 4th and the 17th are standouts.  The greens are also great in the fact that they dictate play back to the tee.  Furthermore, the golfer will face every type of short game shot at Woking.  I hit flops, pitches, bump and runs, Texas wedges, and bunker shots of all shapes and sizes.

The greens at Woking put it well ahead of any heathland course on my trip.  I much preferred Woking to courses like Swinley Forest and Addington that, while being great courses tee to green, lacked something around the greens.  

Thus, my questions are:

Does a course with great greens always beat a golf course with less inspiring greens?

Will courses like Swinley Forest always be held back a bit because their greens are not as fun as courses like Woking, not matter how interesting it is tee to green?  

Finally, do the greens affect how interesting the course is tee to green?

1. No.  I can think of other courses with better greens than Woking, but  prefer Woking to those courses - Woking is the entire package.

2. I think Swinley is not as good as Woking mainly because of the differences in greens between the two, but Swinley's greens are good enough for a fine game of golf.

3. Yes, greens do affect how interesting Woking is tee to green on some holes.  The 4th is the perfect example.  Everybody talks about the centre-line bunkers, but the front to back sloping green with the front left bunker is just as important if not more important than the fairway bunker to the strategy of the hole.  That said, I am not sure there are that many greens at Woking where it makes a difference which way one approaches from.  Many of the greens seem to have a disconnect from the fairway.  Plus, the greens have to be fairly quick to make them count because although they are rolly polly, they aren't hard to read so some speed is necessary to put the bite on.

If you like great greens you MUST make it to Beau Desert.  They are not nearly as rolly polly as Woking's, but boy they have movement and are hard to read.  In my experience, they are the best set of greens in England.  It may require one of your legendary train journies.

As an aside, how did #6 turn out?  

Ciao

[JNC Lyon]

I don't mean to be too hard on Swinley Forest and the greens there.  Swinley does have some fun greens.  There are no bad greens there either.  However, the greens at Swinley just were not as interesting all around as the ones at Woking, to me at least.

Sean, all points well taken.  The greens at Woking were not easy to read, but I still made a few putts.  A course like Addington has greens that are much more difficult to read.  However, that does not make the greens at Woking any less difficult.  Speed is always of the essence.

I guess I see what you are saying about the greens being disconnected from the rest of the hole.  I can see it on a few holes (12 and 15).  However, many of the greens cascade down the land and work very well with the rest of the hole.  I am thinking of 2 and 18 in particular.  Holes like 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 12, 13, 17, and 18 all have greens that dictate play back to the tee.  That is 9 of the 14 non-par three holes, which is very solid. 

I would love to see Beau Desert, possibly on a future trip to the UK.

6 at Woking looks great.  I think they are still working the greenside bunkers a bit, but the fairway bunkers are very well done.

[Bill_McBride]

Beau Desert, I heartily agree with Sean on the great greens.  No two were alike and they were all interesting and challenging.

[Sean_A]

JNC

It must be me, but when greens get rolly polly I tend to find them easier to read so long as I have the speed down.  Get me on some of those subtle greens especially on terrain which moves a bit and I can have a dickens of time. I don't think I have ever putted decently at Beau Desert.  I swear some greens are unreadable.   

From memory, #s 1, possibly 3 (I haven't figured out where the drive should go so I just let it settle out left!), 6, 8, 9, 12, 13 and 15 didn't make much difference where one was on the fairway.  I would also say it is difficult to say the par 3s work back to the tee, but that would be the same for every course.  Ironically, the two where it makes a huge difference, #s 4 & 17, are the more subtle (but very effective) greens and possibly original Dunn greens.  

Despite what I call this (and it really is odd) disconnect between the green and fairway, Woking is one of only six courses I would count among my favourites and among the best I have played.  I think the world of the place.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

JNC, I agree with you - I absolutely love the greens at Woking and in my opinion, they are unique amongst the heathland courses in the amount of internal contouring... All other heathland courses that I know use plenty of slope but less contouring.... I'd love someone to correct me here and point me to a London course with similar greens to Woking...

In that regard, I also agree with Sean that the greens with more subtle movement are often the hardest to read... and greens like those at Woking are just tremendous fun...

[Scott Warren]

As an aside, how did #6 turn out? 

Ciao

Have they made changes to 6 since last August? If not, I can supply some pics, if so, then no dice (John isn't a picture-taker).

[Ally Mcintosh]

As an aside, how did #6 turn out? 

Ciao

Have they made changes to 6 since last August? If not, I can supply some pics, if so, then no dice (John isn't a picture-taker).

I thought all the changes were before last August... fairway bunkering and stream... Could be wrong but your pictures would be welcome Scott... 

You know they have snakes (adders) in the woods to the right of 6... Nothing to a hardy Australian like you but enough for me to make sure I hook it left more times than not...

[Scott Warren]

Pics of number 6:

[JNC Lyon]

JNC, I agree with you - I absolutely love the greens at Woking and in my opinion, they are unique amongst the heathland courses in the amount of internal contouring... All other heathland courses that I know use plenty of slope but less contouring.... I'd love someone to correct me here and point me to a London course with similar greens to Woking...

In that regard, I also agree with Sean that the greens with more subtle movement are often the hardest to read... and greens like those at Woking are just tremendous fun...

Huntercombe, though outside the Surrey heath belt, is another heathland course with wild greens.  For me, Huntercombe's greens set it apart from heathland courses.  I prefer it to courses like Swinley or Addington.  Huntercombe does not have nearly as many wild greens as Woking, but there are plenty there to distinguish it.

[Gareth Williams]

Wonderful golf course Woking and, for me, the far superior choice of the three "W's"

As a counter point on the greens I would say that some of them (3rd for example) have too much contour and can, in some people's eyes, be a tad extreme/"gimmicky" (delete as applicable)

I'm not being overly critical but when you play there in, say, July and they have some rather "interesting" pin positions the greens can be almost un-playable in a competition/card marking round.

[JNC Lyon]

Wonderful golf course Woking and, for me, the far superior choice of the three "W's"

As a counter point on the greens I would say that some of them (3rd for example) have too much contour and can, in some people's eyes, be a tad extreme/"gimmicky" (delete as applicable)

I'm not being overly critical but when you play there in, say, July and they have some rather "interesting" pin positions the greens can be almost un-playable in a competition/card marking round.

Gareth,

I agree, Woking is far and away the best of the "Three Ws."  That is no disrespect to Worplesdon or West Hill, because they are both very good golf courses.  Woking is just more distinctive and far better.

I can see that the greens might have a little too much contour for high speeds.  Of course, the easy solution there is to keep the greens at reasonable speed.  Furthermore, most of the greens give the player a place to miss where a four-putt will not be imminent.  I guess I would lean toward having too much slope in a green rather than not enough.

[John Shimp]

JNC
I played Woking last summer and absolutely was blown away.  Going in people had described it as short and even easy.  Crazy talk despite there being numerous shortish holes like the start/finishers.  I found the course tremendously thought provoking and challenging to score on.  Lines off the tee are really important for a first timer to avoid the heather or other hazards.  Holes 8 and 9 are brutally difficult but i really like the par 3 wteo 16. Holes 7 and 10 are great short holes.  The run of 11-13 of par 4's is also excellent.  I got to spend a little time with the Captain and his son which was nice.  Can't wait to replay.

[Tags:]

Tags: