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Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2010, 11:49:42 AM »
Ryan-

My question is whether you might answer my questions to you re: Seminole on this thread: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42916.70/?

Also what are you working on these days?

Thanks,
Patrick

In regards to Seminole

No. "Thats a personal Issue" ;)


What am I working on these days?

Mission Hills Haikou and a little 36 hole project on the west coast of Hainan, Sand Dunes, Pines, Big Rock Outcroppings, Wild Pineapple and Jungle Vegetation, I would say its kind of like a tropical Pine Valley, with ocean views.

These are just the 2 projects I am involved with, Mission Hills alone is enough to keep me busy 7 days a week, but this new project in the sand is just beginning, should start clearing at the end of the week,  it should be something very very special. Also a nice change of pace since we are working on pure lava rock on our mission hills project.... looking forward to walking the site in a pair of flip flops.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 11:54:02 AM »
Ni shwo, bu-show chunggwahua?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Cirba

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 02:42:41 PM »
Ryan,

Thanks for the thoughtful answers.   Four of your five classic courses are among my very favorites, as well.   Good modern selections, too, although I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on Tobacco Road after you played it to see if it met your high expectations.

btw...not sure if you knew, but North Park was designed by Emil Loeffler (and John McGlynn) of Oakmont fame.   They designed it in 1928, but probably because of the stock market crash, it didn't open until 1932-33, with a Walter Loeffler working as the pro/superintendent.


Tom_Doak

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 11:21:45 PM »
Any dodo can find great golf holes on great sites. Not everyone can create something out of nothing.


That quote will come back to haunt you.  IF you ever get a great site of your own.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2010, 11:41:07 AM »
Any dodo can find great golf holes on great sites. Not everyone can create something out of nothing.


That quote will come back to haunt you.  IF you ever get a great site of your own.

Oh-Oh!  :-[
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2010, 01:02:50 PM »
Well, Garland, it was a dumb thing for Ryan to say.

Apart from the fact that it denigrates a lot of architects' best work, it leaves Ryan with nothing to say for his own future best work.  If the site he referenced in Hainan is really as good as he described, what are Ryan and his bosses going to say about it when they get done?  "Any dodo could have done this" ??

I am pretty sure that I've gotten the good pieces of land that I have over my career because I made a point of saying the land was the most important component of a great course, and as a result, owners with good land trust me to take care of their property.  If you start your career by telling everyone that on good land, the architect doesn't matter, you are lining yourself up for a career of moving dirt on less than ideal property.  But perhaps that will enable Ryan to show his true talent.  ;)

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2010, 03:46:33 PM »
 What any dodo can't do is find a way to connect great holes on a great site. Certainly great sites may contain what appears to be an obvious great golf hole, but I doubt anyone has ever tripped across an entire "great " golf course. I'm hopeful Ryan was just being provocative.

Tony Petersen

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2010, 08:21:31 PM »
Hey Ryan... long time, no see. Last time we played, I'm thinking Vista Verde or Papago a few years back? Anyways, STOKED to hear that everything is working out for you. Good shit happens to lefties... Say "Hi" to Tyler for me if he's still working with Schmidt & Curley and give me a shout next time you get to So Cal. I need a good wing man down here in Newport Beach ;)

Tony (TP)
Ski - U - Mah... University of Minnesota... "Seven beers followed by two Scotches and a thimble of marijuana and it's funny how sleep comes all on it's own.”

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2010, 01:27:20 PM »
btw...not sure if you knew, but North Park was designed by Emil Loeffler (and John McGlynn) of Oakmont fame.   They designed it in 1928, but probably because of the stock market crash, it didn't open until 1932-33, with a Walter Loeffler working as the pro/superintendent.



Thanks, Mike, I embarrassed to admit I know little or nothing about the history of my home muni.

Ryan, what has surprised you most about living in China? How are the women? :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Michael Huber

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2010, 01:42:50 PM »
Ryan,

Did you ever play Schenley?

Mike Cirba

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2010, 01:59:15 PM »

Thanks, Mike, I embarrassed to admit I know little or nothing about the history of my home muni.


George,

I'm just full of useless trivia as relates to public courses.

Since Michael Huber mentioned Schenley Park (a course I drove around but regrettably never played), that was designed by George Ormiston, who was a top amateur player from the 'burgh, and friend of the Fownes's.   I suspect they helped him, but have yet to find definitive info.

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2010, 02:19:20 PM »
George,

I'm just full of useless trivia as relates to public courses.

Useless is in the eye of the beholder! Can you explain to a complete novice how you'd go about researching something like this? Do you really primarily upon C&W's The Architects of Golf? Google searches? I'm always amazed at what you guys (you, Joe B, Bob C, Toms M&P, George B, etc) unearth.

(Apologies for the threadjack, Ryan)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 02:21:55 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Cirba

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2010, 02:59:53 PM »
George,

I was actually inspired to start doing this back in the early 90s after receiving C&W's "The Architects of Golf" as a Christmas present.

I was amazed at the number of courses in there that I'd played, even some quite obscure ones, but also then intrigued by courses I'd played that weren't listed and began my own search to find out shortly after.

Over the years resources have included contacting the courses directly, writing letters to folks who may have been around at the time, public libraries, historical societies, the USGA library, and in more recent years, online databases and most recently, subscriptions to online vintage newspapers and magazines.

It's sort of a cool "whodunnit", and of the 800+ courses I've played there are only a very few where I've been completely stymied.  I've also researched a ton of courses I haven't played, primarily public, in PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, WV, CT.

Incidentally, some years back I did send my findings to Geoffrey Cornish to hopefully be incorporated in a revised edition of that book, and he wrote back a very nice letter.   Unfortunately, I understand that the economics of another large coffee table book of that sort are not very good.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2010, 09:50:18 AM »
Ni shwo, bu-show chunggwahua?


Garland, Wo bu dong.

I am not understanding your pin-yin.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2010, 10:13:48 AM »
Well, Garland, it was a dumb thing for Ryan to say.

Apart from the fact that it denigrates a lot of architects' best work, it leaves Ryan with nothing to say for his own future best work.  If the site he referenced in Hainan is really as good as he described, what are Ryan and his bosses going to say about it when they get done?  "Any dodo could have done this" ??

I am pretty sure that I've gotten the good pieces of land that I have over my career because I made a point of saying the land was the most important component of a great course, and as a result, owners with good land trust me to take care of their property.  If you start your career by telling everyone that on good land, the architect doesn't matter, you are lining yourself up for a career of moving dirt on less than ideal property.  But perhaps that will enable Ryan to show his true talent.  ;)

Tom, dumb? I don't think so. Its my opinion that it is more difficult to create something truly great out of nothing rather to find a great golf hole or great golf course. Nature is a lot more creative than the average person. Thus, finding great golf holes and great variety is a lot easier than doing it on your own.

I know you are taking this as some kind of personal insult but its just my opinion. Not every architect builds a great golf course on a great site, there are plenty of examples. But if you take away the heavy machinery and go back to the basics, how many great golf courses were found in the British isles? If all you had to do was mow the grass and stick in pins and tee markers, we wouldn't have a job, everyone would try and do it themselves.  Unfortunately not every golf course is graced with such a great canvas. And to create one takes quite a bit more talent in my opinion because you are comparing the work of man to the work of nature.

I know most architects could take the site we were given in Hainan and create a fantastic golf course, but not everyone is going to build it the same way, or save the same features, or make it walking only etc..... you sell your style, your talent, your service.....


When you met Mike Keiser did you tell him you were the only person who could create a world class golf course at Bandon Dunes?

Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2010, 10:20:37 AM »
Hey Ryan... long time, no see. Last time we played, I'm thinking Vista Verde or Papago a few years back? Anyways, STOKED to hear that everything is working out for you. Good shit happens to lefties... Say "Hi" to Tyler for me if he's still working with Schmidt & Curley and give me a shout next time you get to So Cal. I need a good wing man down here in Newport Beach ;)

Tony (TP)


I completely forgot about that round. I was reading Jason's post and thinking that this guy is mad, I never played a round with him in my life..... then you enlightened me. It was Vista Verde.... but I just don't remember flippin' shit over the visuals like Jason said, but I'm sure I haven't changed much..... I'm still pretty opinionated about that kind of stuff..... I don't have any qualms about pointing out the wrongs, or rights.....

I'm only in So Cal to catch flights now, but if I ever make it back and have some free time I'll keep you in mind.

Thanks

Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2010, 10:23:29 AM »
Ryan,

Did you ever play Schenley?


No, but I heard some pretty bad things. I would love to see it converted to a 9 Hole course or a Par 3. Maybe If I hit the powerball.... would like to see the First Tee of Pittsburgh with a better facility. I'm a little spoiled with the Phoenix Chapters facilities.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2010, 02:52:01 PM »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2010, 05:49:06 PM »

When you met Mike Keiser did you tell him you were the only person who could create a world class golf course at Bandon Dunes?


Heck, no.  But I know he hired me because he thought I would treat the great piece of property he'd bought with kindness and care.  In fact, the only hesitation he had in hiring me was that I had called some architects "dodos" [or something like that] and thus had a bit of a "negative" reputation, even though he thought I was just being honest.  So, I apologize for characterizing your statement as "dumb," but I'd still be careful what you say.

In the end, I don't care whether you (or anyone) think that I'm a better architect than somebody else, or not ... I just want to build the best courses I possibly can, and having great sites is a pretty important part of that.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 06:06:27 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tom Yost

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2010, 11:56:43 PM »
Hey Ryan... long time, no see. Last time we played, I'm thinking Vista Verde or Papago a few years back? Anyways, STOKED to hear that everything is working out for you. Good shit happens to lefties... Say "Hi" to Tyler for me if he's still working with Schmidt & Curley and give me a shout next time you get to So Cal. I need a good wing man down here in Newport Beach ;)

Tony (TP)


I completely forgot about that round. I was reading Jason's post and thinking that this guy is mad, I never played a round with him in my life..... then you enlightened me. It was Vista Verde.... but I just don't remember flippin' shit over the visuals like Jason said,

To refresh your memory


Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow New
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2010, 02:43:02 AM »
Ryan,

Have you learned to play Mahjong yet?

Do you get to the beach on Hainan Island? After all, it is supposed to be the "Hawaii" of China.

Do you ever worry some party official is going to tear up the course you are building?

« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 07:29:34 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Farrow

Re: Starting Tues., 4/27 - Get To Know Ryan Farrow
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2010, 01:31:10 PM »
Thanks Yost, that a beautifully awful swing.... thanks a lot.


Garland, very clever. No I have not played Mahjong, no time to learn, hardly any time for ping pong.

The beaches in Haikou are pretty skanky, too close to the city with direct pollution, just need to get outside the city limits and it does get beautiful. In spots I would say it is Hawaii Like, some pretty nice mountains, rain forest, waterfalls, some great beaches. But there will be plenty of beach time once our project on the west coast starts to really move.

Party officials are great, you spend a night drinking Moutai with them and then your friends for life. Things are good on Hainan, just recently the moratorium was basically lifted on Hainan, so there isn't much to worry about. Bejing and Chengdu are pretty rough right now. Kunming has had some rocky stretches.... you never know when the crackdowns are coming.

Here is Hawaii:

















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