[Chris Buie]

Yes, I know you've seen it before.  But one of the hallmarks of the really good courses is that you never really get tired of playing them - or appreciating their many nuances.  SPGC certainly falls within those ranks.
I have no hesitation in recommending that all you GCA enthusiasts play it at least once.  

[Jon Heise]

She's a beauty.  Can't wait to get back!

[Kevin Lynch]

Chris,

Thanks for the reminder of Southern Pines' beauty.  My biggest regret for my upcoming trip to Pinehurst is that Southern Pines is being aerated the day we arrive.  Looks like it will have to be moved back into the rota for next year.

[Richard Hetzel]

The next time I visit the Pinehurst area I am play SPCC. I made the mistake of allowing a buddy to insist on Talamore instead last time. Egads.

[Tony_Chapman]

I could go to Pinehurst every year, play Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines and Tobacco Road. Rinse, lather, repeat. It's about as fun as golf can get.

[Jason Topp]

A couple of years ago I took a trip with two other guys and we played 36 at Tobacco Road one day and 36 at Southern Pines the next.  All of us scored a few strokes better at Tobacco Road even though there is not a single shot at Southern Pines that I remember as intimidating.

[Chris Buie]

Jason, that's pretty interesting.  What do you think makes this 6,300 track fairly scoring resistant?  I pay particularly close attention with the approach shots because a lot of the greens are two-tiered with interesting undulations.  Some of the other greens (like 10 and 15) are extremely long.  I always try to be on the correct side of the green on this course.  

[jim_lewis]

Richard:

Don't ever listen to that "buddy" again!  Talamore instead of SPCC may be the worst mistake you can make in the Sand Hills.

[Jud_T]

Chris,

Great Pix! I can't believed I've never played it....Next time down it definitely goes in the rotation....

[Bill_McBride]

Wow!   That just looks great with the azaleas in bloom, what a look.  It also looks very firm.

[Jason Topp]

Jason, that's pretty interesting.  What do you think makes this 6,300 track fairly scoring resistant?  I pay particularly close attention with the approach shots because a lot of the greens are two-tiered with interesting undulations.  Some of the other greens (like 10 and 15) are extremely long.  I always try to be on the correct side of the green on this course. 

I think Tobacco Road plays easier than it looks because most of the course is concave in shape - If you hit it in reasonable proximity to your target you will have a reasonable next shot (or putt).  By contrast Southern Pines is convex, particularly around the greens.  If you miss in the wrong direction you have a very difficult par.  We also really struggled with the par threes on a cool day.  It seemed like we needed a lot of club.

[Richard Hetzel]

Richard:

Don't ever listen to that "buddy" again!  Talamore instead of Pine Needles may be the worst mistake you can make in the Sand Hills.

No, I played Pineneedles/MidPines on a different visit, it was the group wanting to play Talamore over Southern Pines. Talamore never again. Southern Pines CC is my first stop next time I am there.

[John Moore II]

They have raised the rates too high at Southern Pines for me. Its a good course, but not worth the price they charge, at least not in my eyes. Its somewhere around $125 for this time of year, peak season. And doesn't drop below 50 the entire year, I don't think. Thats just too much for that course.

Richard-Yeah, don't listen to those guys who told you to go to Talamore over Southern Pines. I worked for both the parent companies of those courses and even when I worked for Mid South/Talamore, I'd have told you to go to Southern Pines before Talamore, and maybe even before Mid South, though that is about a dead heat, at least for me.

But Southern Pines is a very top rate course, certainly one of the better in Pinehurst, if you can stomach the price.

[John Shimp]

I played southern pines a couple of weeks ago and kept thinking what a fantastic club it would be as a small private. Maybe a little men's club?   I know.  The last thing the world needs and it is great as what it is but...  That course would just be spectacular with a slightly bigger budget and is so secluded it would be the perfect small club.  The greens when i played were in perfect condition but were slow and very inconsistent in speed.  The bunkers were horribly  maintained but a fantastic bunkers.  Hard cart paths appear to be being added which look awful and arent needed given the sand.  Finally, there are very simple ways to give the course a look and feel that would make it unlike anything in pinehurst. For example, hole 7 ought to be the coolest looking and one of the toughest 3's around but there are hideous carth paths on eiather side of the hole, the natural "junk" for tee to green is chopped up horribly and looks awful instead of awesome and the green and surrounds are poorly mowed.  Hole 1 is poorly done and could be "fixed" easily with a tiny bit of interest off the tee and a little thought around the green. Finally, there is a fallow 9 and all the room in the world to move a few tees back on select holes like 8 and 12 for instance.  Anyway i love to play there.  Green fee 2 weeks ago was $79 with cart and my 12 yr old son was free.  Good deal to me.

[Cliff Hamm]

Played about 3 years ago in the fall and greens fees were about $35!!

[Bill_McBride]

Played about 3 years ago in the fall and greens fees were about $35!!

Were you guest of a member?

[John Moore II]

John Shimp-I think Southern Pines used to be more or less private. As far as I know, it was only available to members of the local Elks Lodge. So, it has all ready tried the private route, and it did not work. Thats why they had to lease the course to Avestra Golf Management for however long. They were basically broke before, from what I remember.

[Sean_A]

I preferred S Pines to M Pines and Pine Needles, but the green fee is too high for all three.  None are great courses and essentially have the same feel and play similar though M Pines could do with some drainage work.  All would be good members clubs and are fun to play if in the area, but not really worth a trip to see.

Ciao 

[John Shimp]

John Moore,
I knew SP was private.  I guess i wasn't referring to an underfunded Elks owned private course but a well funded mens club.  Just a hypothetical proposal not a bright idea...

Sean, I'm surprised you were as down on the 3 courses as you are.  I think MidPines is the weakest of the lot and is generally overrated in my view.  I really like Pine Needles and it was playing spectacularly 3 wks ago.  The greens were devilish and there were many satisfying approach shots.  Southern Pines may resist scoring better than any of them and certainly does for its relative length.
It is in a lot worse and inconsistent condition than SP.  MP is often too wet as many holes sit down in valleys and are  shaded by giant pines.

[Jud_T]

I preferred S Pines to M Pines and Pine Needles, but the green fee is too high for all three.  None are great courses and essentially have the same feel and play similar though M Pines could do with some drainage work.  All would be good members clubs and are fun to play if in the area, but not really worth a trip to see.

Ciao 

Sean,

How do you see Pine Needles and Southern Pines as compared to Pinehurst # 1,3,4,5,6,7 & 8 aside from pricing considerations?

[Sean_A]

John Moore,
I knew SP was private.  I guess i wasn't referring to an underfunded Elks owned private course but a well funded mens club.  Just a hypothetical proposal not a bright idea...

Sean, I'm surprised you were as down on the 3 courses as you are.  I think MidPines is the weakest of the lot and is generally overrated in my view.  I really like Pine Needles and it was playing spectacularly 3 wks ago.  The greens were devilish and there were many satisfying approach shots.  Southern Pines may resist scoring better than any of them and certainly does for its relative length.
It is in a lot worse and inconsistent condition than SP.  MP is often too wet as many holes sit down in valleys and are  shaded by giant pines.

John

I am not down on any of the three courses.  All are good and worthy as is damn near any Ross in the land.  I can recall playing these one year then going back to Michigan to play the Ross I grew up on and I didn't see any reason why the Pine courses were seen as any better.  In other words, they aren't particularly special even if they are fun and of that certain standard which we somehow seek.

Jud

I don't see the Pines courses against the little 7 of Pinehurst because I have (and likely never will) never played the little 7.

Ciao

[Chris Buie]

SPGC has been semi-private at least since the 70's.  It's been accessible to anybody that wanted to play it.  Still is.  
If the price is a concern for you just call up the shop and tell them you want to play mid-late afternoon.  They are amiable fellows in there and you shouldn't have a problem sorting out something reasonable.
Avestra has done a very good job of elevating the course condition.  They are to be commended.  Before they came in (about 5 years ago) the course was close to unplayable.  Unbelievably bad condition.
Regarding the 7th, I don't think it looks that bad.  They took down a bunch of trees that were in the hollow.  It's a well designed hole.  The green angles from front right to back left.  If the wind is blowing it can be a challenge choosing the right club.  And you do want to choose the right club on this hole.



From short right.




Here's a bit of interesting SPGC trivia for you.  The original design had a little par-3 (or one-shotter) that went between the 4th green and the 15th tee.  That way you could play a nice little 9 hole loop.  It's not there now but it could be restored without a great degree of difficulty.



I did a little photoshop thing of the 2nd hole.  Not sure it's worth posting.  It's a fun computer program to play around with from time to time.



Oh, and Sean, Pine Needles is not great?  I'd be interested to hear the thoughts behind that.

[Cliff Hamm]

Played about 3 years ago in the fall and greens fees were about $35!!

Were you guest of a member?

No..course had just been 'fixed up'.  As I understand it, had really been let go and they put some bucks into it.  Played early October as I recall.  Since then it has gotten good press and as noted prices have skyrocketed.  I would agree excellent course but $125 seem over priced.

[John Moore II]

I preferred S Pines to M Pines and Pine Needles, but the green fee is too high for all three.  None are great courses and essentially have the same feel and play similar though M Pines could do with some drainage work.  All would be good members clubs and are fun to play if in the area, but not really worth a trip to see.

Ciao 

Sean,

How do you see Pine Needles and Southern Pines as compared to Pinehurst # 1,3,4,5,6,7 & 8 aside from pricing considerations?

Your question depends on a few things. One, you can get some decent rates to stay in the Pinehurst hotels (actual resort hotels, not the Pinecrest or a chain hotel) and play all the courses other than #2 for no additional charge, some packages even offer unlimited golf per day. So, in that way, the courses at the Resort and Needles are way ahead of Southern Pines for price because you have to stay off site with Southern Pines. Southern Pines is as good as the 4 courses at the Resort I have played, 1, 3, 5, and 7. Pine Needles is much better than those 4, by far.

This is a hard question to answer though. If Pinehurst Resort is the baseline, then those other 2 price out very favorably. And right in line with the quality expected, with the rate at SPCC being cheaper than the rates at the lowest of the Resort courses. Pine Needles compares in price with #4 and #8 and from what I have seen walking 4 and 8, and playing Needles, those rates are pretty favorable as well.

But, Needles and SPCC are better than the bottom 5 at the Resort (1, 3, 5, 6, 7) and Needles is better than all but #2 and certainly compares very favorably with #4 and #8, IMO.

[Roger Wolfe]

If Kris Spence ever got a hold of Southern Pines it would vault to top 5 in the Carolinas.  Unbelievable piece of property and one of my all time favorite Ross originals.

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