[Melvyn Morrow]

Is clearly not what Brian Davis believes in. He showed that it’s the way you play that matters, it is what the game is all about. Those who cannot understand his honesty with himself have completely misunderstood the game.

For those who have not seen or read about Brian’s honesty when playing against Furyk at the Verizon Heritage Classic  South Carolina on Sunday here is a basic report.

To recap

Brian Davis lost the sudden death play-off to Jim Furyks, his potential first ever victory in America. Davis was some 20 foot out while Furyks was about 6 feet. Davis turn when he called the referee over stating that he thought his club had brushed against a stray reed on his backswing. Davis asked for a replay to confirm his suspicions and the TV picture caught the reed contact thus in breach of Rule 13-4 which required a two stroke penalty. The rest is history.

The point it seems no one noticed, but the golfer, he did what the game asked, he was true to himself. The result, no potential title and a reduction of £500,000 in prize money. This is what the game is about, one's honesty and one's ability to play the game alone or with others. 
 
So to all those who say 'victory at any cost', you are sadly mistaken, there is a way to behave, but it must start from within.

Others should take note and learn the lesson from this Londoner. Brian Davis is a true Golfer not to mention great sportsman which is exactly what golf is in desperate need of at this moment in time. My reason for saying that IMHO the majority of professional golfers would not have shown the moral calibre of Davis when half a million pounds was at stake. Why my belief, because I have been told on this site that it is ‘victory at any cost’, period. 

Melvyn


PS Course Etiquette is important, so is allowing the player who won the last hole the Honour of Teeing Off at the next hole. There cannot be any halfway house, you play by the rules or should be removed from the course, just in case you ruin the game for others. How can anyone live with themselves if they knowingly broke the rules and cheated by not accepting their error. Cheating is cheating is cheating no number of excuses will alter that fact. Question should we not include distance aids and carts as they are clearly not from within.             

PPS Ladies & Gentlemen, its down to us (all golfers) to say what we feel and what we accept, but to ignore or not play by the Rules of the Game will start the rot, so please no shortcuts, its either Golf or some other game. Who here just hasn’t the bottle to play by the Rules and why. What makes you so special that you think you have the right to play a Game called Golf but ignore the Rules

[Mac Plumart]

Melvyn...

I think you might be right on a lot of point, but I do think the way you worded some of this stuff will irritate some people.  However, looking through the rough patches in regards to the wording I think you have some excellent point to discuss and consider.

#1--Brian Davis' actions were classy and represent the game of golf very well.  Reminds me of the Bobby Jones story regarding calling a penalty on himself.  This is the way the game is supposed to be played.

#2--Why doesn't everyone play it this way?  Pride and ego are my answers.  I can't tell you how many people I have played with (including myself from time to time) take mulligans, gimmie's, ignore rules they think are silly, etc.  And I think a lot of it is so at the end of the round, you can say you hit 79 or 89 and not 80 or 90.  That one stroke (or so) makes a big difference.

I get a sense that in our modern society winners are rewarded...no matter how they won, because most times people don't take the time to dig into the details.  Mark McGuire/Roger Clemens/Sammy Sosa/Barry Bonds were heros for a period of time and had millons of people singing their praises.  But when the curtain was pulled back, it certainly appears they were cheaters and they are getting their just rewards.

One reason why this "cheating" may be occuring at such a rampant rate is that it is socially acceptable.  Mulligans off the first tee is how 90% of the people I play with do it.  Gimmie putts if they are inside the leather...50% of the people do it.  Winter rules for bad lies...20%.  I could go on and on, but I guess the bottom line is the perhaps they don't see taking these small liberties with the rules as "cheating" as everyone does it.

Another thing is handicap deflation.  I can't tell you how many people I've played with who say they are handicap X, but then go play like a handicap 3X.  Again, I think it is ego.  They might be embarrassed to say their real handicap at  the bar, I don't know for sure but that is my guess.  So, maybe they fudge their score and/or the rules the play more in line with that handicap index.

I wish/hope that people would play the game more in line with the honor and tradition that you mention and that it is supposed to be played with...but I am not confident that will happen for the majority of golfers.  All I can do is make my game more "clean" and see if others follow my lead.

Thanks Melvyn!

[Mike Sweeney]

PPS Ladies & Gentlemen, its down to us (all golfers) to say what we feel and what we accept, but to ignore or not play by the Rules of the Game will start the rot, so please no shortcuts, its either Golf or some other game. Who here just hasn’t the bottle to play by the Rules and why. What makes you so special that you think you have the right to play a Game called Golf but ignore the Rules

If you play casual weekend matches by proper rules (hole every putt, play in proper order.....) pace of play will get worse. Time and a place for everything Melvyn. Rules of golf are fine for competitive golf but need adjustments for weekend golfers, IMO.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

I am not that impressed/surprised at Brian Davis. That is what he is supposed to do.

He knows that the camera's are on him. The last thing he needs to do is hole out and then they go to the replay, and he get "caught".

Professional golfers at that level make alot of money off sponsorship, and not many companies are going to pay a "cheater".

It's just what goes along with being a professional--just like any other line of work.

[David_Tepper]

Melvyn -

Thanks for the lecture. Or was it a sermon?

DT

[Craig Sweet]

Melvyn..

In another thread I said what is wrong with winning at any cost with in the rules.  The "game" these guys play is for a lot of money....there's a winner, and the rest in the field are losers.   I have little respect for a PGA Tour golfer that comes into a tournament saying "I hope to do well, my game is ok...blah..blah...blah"  How about admitting up front that you do not expect to win this week?

What Davis did is what I would expect him to do. He knew the camera was on him and someone out there in TV land would be on the phone saying he violated the rules...all these guys know that.  The implication in your post is Tiger, or someone, would not have called that penalty on himself....I seriously doubt any pro would not have done what Davis did...

As for the weekend warrior at the local club....I think MOST would have done nothing. I think MOST do not know the rule beyond grounding a club in a hazard...

[Scott Warren]

I think I correctly recall Bobby Jones' reply when congratulated for similar actions: "You may as well have congratulated me for not robbing a bank."

As far as "victory at all costs", I can't recall anyone ever saying that on GCA.com in so far as "it's okay to cheat and display poor etiquitte, as long as you end up holding the oversized cheque".

Another Morrow Missive that's really directed at no one in particular, but all and sundry at the same time.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

Hell are you saying I have been playing it wrong all my life, yet never had problem with time or caused slow rounds.

Honour the Rules, Honour the Game and thus Honour yourself, I do not think my grandfather or granduncles were wrong in how they taught me the Game of Golf. But then it is a game called Golf that I play.

M S S

That is down to you, how you view others. Clearly he did what he did for whatever reasons, yet we have others who just do not care what you or others think, classic is poor language and club throwing, but then I suppose they are above all of us mere mortals and anyway the rules do not apply to them. And I certainly would not miss them if they left the game

Mac

I say it as I see it. I have seen the game reduced to its current state in my lifetime, so I feel I have a right to voice my opinion. Sorry others don't agree but  then I do not agree with the way some play, whatever it is they play.

David

Its neither but take it whatever way you want

Craig

Are you saying we can't trust the Pros because of the money, wow, seems to say a lot about the moden game.

Melvyn

[Mike Benham]

Melvyn -

Thanks for the lecture. Or was it a sermon?

DT

Must have been a sermon as there was no GCA content ...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

And of course you would know

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

First off, Kelly I get your point 100% on handicap.  And I think the systems is not perfect at all.  Also, it is my understanding is that when adjusted for slope, a golfer should shoot their handicap 20% of the time (or there abouts).  But I've seen lots a people shoot nowhere near their handicap...say they are a 7 and then shoot 100, say they are a 5 and then I beat them staight up 3 days out of 4 (which should never happen given my index).  That was my point.  As far as not understanding the handicap system...I don't either.  My index is 11.5, but my best round in my last 20 is 84 and my worst is 101.  But it says I am an 11.5, so I guess I am.

Now to the most interesting part of the post...The Spirit of Golf.  What is it?

Obviously, in competetive golf you play by the rules 100% of the time, period, end of story.  But Mike said weekend golfers need to make adjustments.  I think that is within the spirit of the game.  Am I wrong?

Played this weekend with a friend of mine and his 15 year old son.  Second time his son ever played.  We let him hit multiple tees shots, give himself good lies, etc.  after he struggled for the first few holes and seemed to get frustrated.  Now he isn't in the GHIN system and/or tracking his handicap  he is trying to learn how to play.  Is "cheating" for him a good thing or bad?

If we don't "cheat" for him, he will most liekly get frustrated and quit.  So, what do we do?

When I play (and walk) too much, my legs swell and it makes my swing hard to execute on the back nine.  I will sometimes movethe ball if I have a side hill lie as many times I can't keep my balance on those shots.  I am clearly "cheating".  What should I do?

What is in the spirit of the game in these instances?

As always, I dont' ask to start a fight...I ask to get your opinions on how I should be handling things like this.

[Michael Dugger]

Dumb thread 

Has ZERO to do with GCA
Is basically another thinly veiled attack on Tiger Woods (would he have called that on himself?)
I already saw 1 or 2 threads on Brian Davis and this topic

You are ranting in the wrong forum, Melvyn, your methods do not reach this crowd. 

 

[Rory Connaughton]

Davis did the right thing as did McDowell last month when he called a penalty on himself for skimming water in his back swing. In my experience, professionals act professionally and will do what is right. I cannot think of a single person that I regularly play with that would not do the same thing.

Mac, as for a youngster who has played twice in his life coming out for a casual stroll around the course, no match, no competition, no score for handicap purposes, he's doing nothing more than practicing so I am not troubled and would encourage him to improve his lie, hit two or whatever else he needs to do to make the day enjoyable. You can't cheat if your not playing a competition or match right?

[Garland Bayley]

PPS Ladies & Gentlemen, its down to us (all golfers) to say what we feel and what we accept, but to ignore or not play by the Rules of the Game will start the rot, so please no shortcuts, its either Golf or some other game. Who here just hasn’t the bottle to play by the Rules and why. What makes you so special that you think you have the right to play a Game called Golf but ignore the Rules

If you play casual weekend matches by proper rules (hole every putt, play in proper order.....) pace of play will get worse. Time and a place for everything Melvyn. Rules of golf are fine for competitive golf but need adjustments for weekend golfers, IMO.

If they are casual weekend matches, why are they taking so long that proper etiquette and rule following would make them too long? Are they casual, because people feel entitled to take their own sweet time to do everything they do? Are they too long because their casual nature causes them to stroll instead of walk at a pace one would expect from recreation? It seems that because the average golfer would flout the etiquette rules about pace, we now must allow him to drop additional rules of etiquette and golf.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael

You said
Dumb thread 

Has ZERO to do with GCA
Is basically another thinly veiled attack on Tiger Woods (would he have called that on himself?)
I already saw 1 or 2 threads on Brian Davis and this topic

You are ranting in the wrong forum, Melvyn, your methods do not reach this crowd.  

If you have seen 1 or 2 threads on Brian Davis on this forum, then I must be on the right site, what a dumb statement to make.

Also I do not see you as having a go at the other two authors,  smacks of double standards, something I am becoming aware of on this site. Is the intention to attack me because some of you don’t like my point of view, as clearly seen by those who have contributed zero to the topic on this thread.

You and others should be ashamed of yourselves. Do not like my posts then why bother making a comment. Intimidation is ugly at the best of times. Ultimately that is precisely what you are doing. Well Guys hope it makes you proud, fills you with joy because you are actually doing the ranting, not on the subject be aimed at me.

For all my faults and there are no doubt many, I have pushed on this site for better golf, for better courses locations, for walking, for less outside aids, for an understand of what golf is and how it is still played in the Majors.  Golf is a repetitive game, so following the example of the game I Love, I push the points that concern me. They are pushed on this site, on the Discussion Group Forum, but alas you do not want to hear my comments as they are repetitive. Yet pray tell me what is selecting the Best of this or the Best of that every few months but repetitive and some posts have even less to do with GCA than my topics.

Don’t like me, you do not know me, don’t like my posts, yet have you fully taken the time to actually understand them like friend talking over a pint. Don’t like what I say then why bother getting involved in my topics.

I may have my faults Gentlemen, but some of you far exceed my minor failings. Live and let live some say but not when it comes to Melvyn.

Freedom of Speech close friend is Tolerance, some may have to seek a Thesaurus to fully understand the meaning of that word.

Melvyn 

PS Michael, a crowd is just one step short of a mob.

[Sean Leary]

PPS Ladies & Gentlemen, its down to us (all golfers) to say what we feel and what we accept, but to ignore or not play by the Rules of the Game will start the rot, so please no shortcuts, its either Golf or some other game. Who here just hasn’t the bottle to play by the Rules and why. What makes you so special that you think you have the right to play a Game called Golf but ignore the Rules

If you play casual weekend matches by proper rules (hole every putt, play in proper order.....) pace of play will get worse. Time and a place for everything Melvyn. Rules of golf are fine for competitive golf but need adjustments for weekend golfers, IMO.

This is a good point.

I am curious how many people play 100% by the rules of golf every single round they play. I am not really talking about mulligans or winter rules. I am talking, like I am climbing into a bunker and my club accidentally barely touches the sand. Or I am under a tree, and in my practice backswing, I knock of a droplet of water off a leaf. That sort of stuff, that does not have an any impactful effect or advantage on your next shot. I am meaning your casual games, not tounament rounds of any kind.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Melyvn,
The rules are going to be broken in casual play because no one knows them all well enough to do anything else in questionable situations. The rule book might get whipped out, but it's the rare bird who carries the decisions with him (that guy will usually end up playing alone after a time), and most guys who've mentioned the Davis incident to me had no idea that they couldn't touch a loose impediment on their backswing while in a hazard.

I don't see how you can label Tour Players as cheats, that's preposterous. One of the reasons that play is slowed at times is because of their respect for the rules, when in doubt they call in a rules 'professional' just to make sure they are following the correct procedure. It may be due to the fact that they to make a costly mistake, but it's a nod to the governance that's at the core.

Mac,
When the 8 is really a 15, rejoice, and treat him like an annuity.

[Pat Burke]

I debated on a response  couple of times, as I too believe that Melvyn's initial post was a thinly veiled insult at "others on this board"
And since I am always wrong and clearly do not read Melvyn's posts, I just over react to them, here goes.
I take offense to your statement that the majority of players would NOT have called into question a similar offense.
Again, I have witnessed many players call "unseen" infractions, and I experienced it having to call a penalty for my ball moving in US Open qualifying, which pushed me in to a playoff.  I also had another ball move on a green at 2nd stage of q school, in a year that I made it by one shot.  The same day, Jeff Maggert notified us that he hit a wrong ball on #7 (last round) when nobody knew.
I was one that responded that professionals play to WIN, and I know that I made no mention of at all costs, I was just talking about the difference of Tour golf vs what I feel is REAL golf played by the remaining 99.9% of golfers that pay the bills for the tours.
BTW, I also run a golf non profit that introduces children to the game, rules, etiquette, life skills and education.  We have started over 1400 children in golf, and been the catalyst for 4 girls HS golf teams when there were none.  230+ kids get free golf lessons, and golf for a dollar, all based on our own fundraising.  A big part of our fundraising has come from Tour pros helping in a pro am and donating auction items for us.  5 different equipment companies have donated a lot of equipment, that we mostly GIVE to kids who can not afford it.
So, maybe it's the difference between USA language of English and St. Andrews, but to me, I read too many generalizations about professional golfers in your posts, especially when I have witnessed what so many have done

[Michael Dugger]

Melvyn,

Ever heard the expression, "Captain Obvious?"

The problem here isn't that I disagree with you or "dislike you." 

The problem is your banality...

banal [bəˈnɑːl]

adj

lacking force or originality; trite; commonplace; repeated too often; overfamiliar through overuse; "bromidic sermons"; "his remarks were trite and commonplace"; "hackneyed phrases"; "a stock answer"; "repeating threadbare jokes"; "parroting some timeworn axiom"; "the trite metaphor `hard as nails'"

[Melvyn Morrow]

Pat

I do not disbelieve you, but you seem to forget that I have been around golf course since the early 1960's so have also seen things not all from the 60,70 or 80's.  

My post was no attack "thinly veiled or not" but you read it as you wish.

I for one was very please to see Brian do the right thing to a mad rule but then thats just MHO.

Please to see what you are doing re the kids and all I can say is bloody well done.

Melvyn

[David_Tepper]

Pat Burke -

Thanks for your post and for all the good work you have done.
And thanks for sharing your experience and observations with us.
Hearing from someone who has actually "been inside the ropes" is a real bonus for the rest of us viewing from the peanut gallery.

DT   

[Pat Burke]

David,
I have definitely gained more in this forum than I have contributed
I was blessed to be able to play for a living for a short time, triple blessed to do what I do now, and quadruple frustrated that
I cannot design golf courses!

[Michael Dugger]

Michael

You said
Dumb thread 

Has ZERO to do with GCA
Is basically another thinly veiled attack on Tiger Woods (would he have called that on himself?)
I already saw 1 or 2 threads on Brian Davis and this topic

You are ranting in the wrong forum, Melvyn, your methods do not reach this crowd.  

If you have seen 1 or 2 threads on Brian Davis on this forum, then I must be on the right site, what a dumb statement to make.  No, this isn't an issue of who is right or who is wrong.  As someone pointed out on your recent thread about Tiger/The Masters, why do you have to draw attention to yourself by starting YET ANOTHER thread, why don't you just chime in on an already existing one?  It's not like the subject matter has really changed

Also I do not see you as having a go at the other two authors,  smacks of double standards, something I am becoming aware of on this site. Is the intention to attack me because some of you don’t like my point of view, as clearly seen by those who have contributed zero to the topic on this thread. I don't "have a go" at those other folks because there ought to be some room for topics of this sort, just not countless threads discussing the same issue

You and others should be ashamed of yourselves. Do not like my posts then why bother making a comment. Intimidation is ugly at the best of times. Ultimately that is precisely what you are doing. Well Guys hope it makes you proud, fills you with joy because you are actually doing the ranting, not on the subject be aimed at me.Just as it is your right to blather on incessantly about the same issues AGAIN AND AGAIN, it is my right to voice my opinion

For all my faults and there are no doubt many, I have pushed on this site for better golf, for better courses locations, for walking, for less outside aids, for an understand of what golf is and how it is still played in the Majors. That's all well and good, yet it's not what I come to this website for.  Why don't you take your walking legs out to a course and let us know how it's playing this spring?  How is that 2010 course looking for the upcoming Ryder Cup?  Is Trump's course moving forward?   Golf is a repetitive game, so following the example of the game I Love, I push the points that concern me. They are pushed on this site, on the Discussion Group Forum, but alas you do not want to hear my comments as they are repetitive. Yet pray tell me what is selecting the Best of this or the Best of that every few months but repetitive and some posts have even less to do with GCA than my topics.You might be mistaken, my friend, there is no "point pushing" going on around here.  For years now folks come together to discuss GOLF COURSE ARCHITECTURE.  Learn about old dead guys, discuss new projects, the state of the art, etc.  YOU MR. MORROW appear to have an agenda, and it appears to be something along the line of convincing us how everything modern is screwed up and we ought to go back to living in the stone age.  My problem with you, if summed up in one or two sentances, is you are fanatical.  You are throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Your dogmatic viewpoints are as predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.  But most of us already know those viewpoints, and have moved on.  We are interested in where we go from here, not where we have been.  And getting back to another theme of all this, all I really care about is discussing golf course architecture, Tiger Woods, The Masters, cheaters, walking the course...etc etc etc....take that shit to another website will ya.  More images of new courses like Lost Farm.  More interviews with Jim Urbina.  More discussions on the lineage of old courses (except Merion

Don’t like me, you do not know me, don’t like my posts, yet have you fully taken the time to actually understand them like friend talking over a pint. Don’t like what I say then why bother getting involved in my topics.

I may have my faults Gentlemen, but some of you far exceed my minor failings. Live and let live some say but not when it comes to Melvyn.I said I thought your thread was dumb, I never commented on YOU.  Ironic indeed.

Freedom of Speech close friend is Tolerance, some may have to seek a Thesaurus to fully understand the meaning of that word.

Melvyn 

PS Michael, a crowd is just one step short of a mob.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael

If you have something to say why not just come out and say it

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

Pat...I loved your last two posts.  Also, I have read many of your other posts and, like David, I appreciate the perspective you bring to the discussion group.  As you probably know, I am interested in learning as much as I can about the game and it is wonderful to have someone with touring professional experience to voice their thoughts and opinions.

Thanks!

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