Starting Wed., 4/14 - Get to know me...

[Terry Lavin]

George:

Thanks for doing all this stuff.  Your series on Oakmont really stimulated a lot of meaningful posts by a lot of different people about a lot of different courses and it really benefited the site.

Having said that, given the quality of the Oakmont profile that you did, I am absolutely gobsmacked that you've only played it once.  I can make sure that this changes anytime you are ready to take it on...

[George Pazin]

So, George... tell me about Kettlebells.

You use them, obviously?

Yep, love 'em!

Okay George-

Kettlebells,

 Have you mastered the heavy KB snatch?

 Are your KB in pood or LB?

 Favorite single KB workout/routine?

Math

 Do you ever walk away from your businesses finances and wonder what was the point of 400(possibly 300) level math

Music
 
 You get a single 2 hour set to see, can be any band(or bands), who is it, and if multiple what is the split?

Enjoying the thread, and putting big ben above Peyton Manning is borderline blasphemous.

Mastered the heavy snatch? Not by a long shot. In many ways, my kb level is analogous to my fgolf level - I'm solid compared to your average Joe off the street, but weak compared to most of the kettlebell mutants. The bells are from a company called Dragon Door, they list them all ways, poods, kilos and pounds. I have (in kilos) a 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 and 40. Favorite workout is probably just swinging the 40K (88 lbs) for short repeat intervals. That would be a terrific workout all by itself. Anyone interested in learning more should get the book Enter The Kettlebell by Pavel; you can get it from Dragon Door directly, they even offer a package with book, instructional DVD and 16K/35 lb. kettlebell.

Brutal minimalist fitness - to match my preference for minimalist architecture!

Math - only every day.

Music - One 2 hour concert, I'd choose my friends' bands, dharma sons and Wade. I spent many a night with a lot of good friends seeing those guys; it's how I met my wife, actually. Of bands that are/were more national, I'd probably choose to see a double bill of Ruth Ruth and Marvelous 3, primarily because they're both gone, and my favorites, Green Day and Foo, I can still see on occasion. One of my friends, the singer of dharma sons, calls this genre of music power pop. The singer of Wade calls it toxic pop...

I'm sure there's only a few of us that put Ben ahead of Peyton (probably just me and Ben's parents), but consider this: When Ben had to drive for victory in the Super Bowl, he did it. Manning threw a pick 6. And that doesn't even mention the 2 to 1 edge in SB victories, the head to head playoff win 4 years ago, etc. Manning is a terrific fantasy qb, but overrated otherwise, imho. Seems like a better guy than Ben, however...

[George Pazin]

George, you showed your true passion for GCA and golf when you were about the only subscriber to the early attempt to capitalize a dream golf course at Barnbougle Dunes.  I was so very impressed at your valiant effort to follow a dream.  Alas, that scenario was not to be, but it wasn't because a very enthusiastic guy like you didn't try.  But, we are all about 10 years older now.  And, you've become a Dad and all that responsiblity keeps draining the natural inclination to pursue a dream like you obviously had about a magical golf course on the other side of the world.

My question is:  Do you foresee a time in the future (maybe after raising that youngster) where you might be enthralled and excited enough about a project like the first version of Barnbougle to give it another whorl - maybed something closer to the northern hemisphere?  

For those who don't know what Dick is referencing, I will provide the backstory. This isn't done to brag in any way whatsoever - if anything it shows what a foolish dreamer I was and remain, and that's part of getting to know me.

When Tom Doak & Mike Clayton worked for me and I was business partners with Mike Keiser

  (apologies in advance for any errors in this story, I'm going off the cuff from memory)

Shortly after I came on board to golfclubatlas in '99, another young dreamer named Greg Ramsay started posting photos of a dramatic site down in Tasmania. Some of us would drool over the images, while others would express doubt over the project ever happening. Greg decided to actually do what many on here have actually proposed: finance the course with basically a bunch of dreamers. For $6K Aus (about 4K US), one would receive lifetime free golf at Barnbougle Dunes. The goal was to raise the $1-2 million necessary to build the course. Well, when push came to shove, only about 20 people were so crazily committed to this dream that they ponied up the cash, and since I am the biggest dreamer around, I was one of 'em. Unfortunately, so few sent in $$$ that this way of financing fell through, and Greg returned everyone's money. The only thing I lost was transaction fees, and it was worth every penny for my psyche to know I had a teeny tiny little part in keeping the dream alive. Because Greg had already found Tom & Mike Clayton, and Mike K was an early investor, I like to joke that Tom & Mike C worked for me and Mike K was my business partner. If Mike K ever finds this out, he may drop dead from a heart attack, so please keep this joke between us! I don't want to get into the specifics of how the course got built - Tom has some shared info, both on here in public and with me off-line; you can find what he said on here and the rest will stay between us.

I couldn't afford it then, can't now, but that won't stop me the next time something like this comes up...

[George Pazin]

Hi George,

Another Browns fan here   

1. Have you ever played Fox Chapel?

2. Can you prove to me that Santonio Holmes had both feet down vs the Cardinals in the Steelers last SB win?  I know what the ruling on the field was, but I firmly believe that the toe of his one foot was caught on his other foot's toe cleat.  His toe was probably less than an inch off the ground, but that's an incomplete pass!! The part that amazes me the most is that AZ didn't raise more of a fuss.  Even some of the announcers brought up that point.

Another note, as far as I'm concerned, there is no Browns vs Steelers rivalry.  Domination from one team ends the rivalry.  However, it was nice the see the Browns crush Ben in the final game last year.

Oh....and "Send it in Jerome!!" might be my favorite college basketball call of all time.  I'll never get sick of watching that highlight.

Thanks,

Jonathan

Nope, walked it a bunch of times, have been to a few weddings and other events there, but like my opportunities with Oakmont, life has never allowed it.

I think you're wrong on Tone's catch, but will admit a very teeny tiny slight bias... To me, that's one of the shortcomings of replay (though I prefer an imperfect replay to the alternative), the camera can lie, depending on the angle. I will say this, I think it was a heckuva lot clearer than the supposed Oiler TD/incompletion decades ago that many claim as the impetus for replay.

We deserved everything we got last year. Bruce Arians is the worst offensive coordinator to ever win a Super Bowl, the worst OC ever to coach on a good team, and the sooner he is gone, the sooner the Stillers will climb the mountain again.

Jerome's play was just beyond awesome. Funny story about that: my younger brother was at that game. He missed the dunk, was talking to his friend with him and had his head turned...

[George Pazin]

Have you bought a set of clubs for your son?
Do you take him to play?
Cheers

Not yet. He is athletically challenged, so I'm not hopeful, but maybe someday soon.

My experiences with Mike - Yet another site favorite. I know, you're probably thinking all these guys posted on my thread just to get a shout out, but they're all true, I swear. I had the occasion to join Mike, Ran and Paul Hermsmeyer - another poster I miss, though he didn't post much - for a round at Paa Ko Ridge in NM. Terrific round, terrific day. Mike is another guy I consider a brother separated at birth. He has an uncanny knack for sending me an email or shooting me a message on days when life is treating me poorly otherwise. His wonderful work at Wolf Point remains at the very tip top of my wish list - partly because he is a good friend, but also because I really think it is about as close as I've seen to a course that fits my ideas of golf course architecture. If we could get Don out there with us, that would be my idea of heaven. I'd have to leave my son at home, because that is the only thing that would likely get me off the course and back home.

[George Pazin]

Favorite thriller writer? That's a loaded question for sure! You know I'm one of your biggest fans, I've wielded my sadly minimal influence to push your book up the ranks at Amazon. Aside from you, my favorite is probably Robert Ferrigno.

Well, George, your standing with me just went up about 100-fold.  

Glad to hear that. I sent Mr. Ferrigno an email after reading one of his books - the title escapes me, the main character was named Val - and he kind of responded. Didn't really address my point, but thanked me for contacting him and suggested I pick up his new book, Prayers For The Assassin. I had already read it.

For those that haven't read Rick Shefchik's books, first, shame on you! Support your fellow gca'ers! But seriously, you should read at least Amen Corner, it is a terrific and fun golf thriller. I'm not sure, but I think one of the pros was modeled physically after me.

Well, me or Villegas, we're almost twins.

George, this is a very strange coincidence: There's a scene in my next novel ["Frozen Tundra," North Star Press, to be published June 1] in which Sam Skarda and a former girlfriend are being held at gunpoint by a jealous ex-husband, driving in a car across the winter wastelands of Wisconsin, and Sam asks the guy if he can play some music. He puts on "The Color and the Shape," and the song "Everlong." I had no idea you were a big Foo Fighters/Dave Grohl fan, but when you read it, you'll think it was written for you. Maybe it was.

It was also written for Packers fans, Sam Skarda fans, football fans and thriller fans. And I thank you, George, for your unfailing support.

Rick

What can I say, great minds... I will be buying Frozen Tundra the very first day it's available. That's a promise and a threat!

[George Pazin]

George:

Thanks for doing all this stuff.  Your series on Oakmont really stimulated a lot of meaningful posts by a lot of different people about a lot of different courses and it really benefited the site.

Having said that, given the quality of the Oakmont profile that you did, I am absolutely gobsmacked that you've only played it once.  I can make sure that this changes anytime you are ready to take it on...

Thanks for the kind words and the exceedingly generous offer. I think if you look back at the threads, you'll find I tried to do more prompting of others than sharing my own thoughts.

I forgot to mention this to Matt, but I have walked the course many times - maybe 20-30. I've also spent a lot of time watching very good to great golfers play there, which believe me, tells one a heckuva lot more than the shakey handed experiences of a 20 handicapper.

[jonathan_becker]

Thanks, George

Damn straight about Bruce Arians!!  

Your brother missed out big time!!  With the new rims and better backboards, I don't think we'll be seeing anymore shattered boards.

One thing I forgot to say....when I was a kid and I had a college basketball spectacular dunks vhs from the late 80s, one of my favorites was Darrell Porter's "Stairway to Heaven" dunk.  He was close to parallel with the floor when he threw it down!! Ring a bell?

[George Pazin]

Apologies again for monopolizing the top of the board, this will be the last post for a little while - gotta go pick up my son and take him to kindergarten!

Semi-embarrassing things you may not know about me:

1) First of all, this is what I look like:

Me and my better two-thirds

(My wife hates this photo - she can't see the beauty that I see)

2) I once tried out for Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - passed the tests, failed the interview. I didn't want to do this, but my wife really wanted me to, so I felt I owed it to her to try. They were having a contestant search in the Burgh, so I went down with about 3,000 other people and stood in line (next to a young woman with strikingly blue eyes and a guy who knew more about the Civil War than I know about anything). They administered two tests - one general knowledge, one a movie test sponsored by NetFlix - to about 400 people at a time. Guess who was the only nerd during my group to pass both? Unfortunately, my responses to the questionnaire and the responses that I gave to the young woman must have scared them off, because I got a postcard a few weeks later saying thanks but no thanks.

I share that story so I can offer the following, do as I say, not as I do, advice: If you want to be good at trivia and other meaningless stuff, learn a little about a lot. If you want to succeed in life, learn a lot about a little.

Jonathan - I remember Darelle quiet well, but I'm blanking on that dunk. I probably have it on tape somewhere in my basement!

[Mike Nuzzo]

I've been involved with youth sports for about 12 years now, and believe me I have seen a lot of kids grow up in our youth sports programs and some of the kids that are exceling right now were some of the most unlikely to do so.

Go with Kelly's opinion.

Have you read Extraordinary Golf?
Shooter and I recommend it highly.

Thank you for your nice comments.

What did you think about your future 20 years ago?
Cheers

[Garland Bayley]

...Twenty years ago I thought I'd amount to a lot more in life. If I had, I'd like to think I'd be standing with Ian and Mike Nuzzo at different sites around the country, having a lot of fun. ...

With an analytical mind and Wall Street experience, all you had to do was buy a few of the right credit default swaps and you would have been there. My excuse? I don't have the Wall Street experience.

[Jud_T]

George,

Admit it,

The Foo Fighters first album was awesome and it's been downhill ever since, although they are still a great live band....Thoughts?

[jonathan_becker]

Apologies for adding a post with no questions, but I think George would approve this one.

For those of you that haven't seen Jerome Lane's dunk, here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTn_9k-GBzQ

The first 30 seconds is the meat of it and at the :24 mark you get to hear Raftery's best call ever.

[George Pazin]

George,

Admit it,

The Foo Fighters first album was awesome and it's been downhill ever since, although they are still a great live band....Thoughts?

The first one was indeed awesome, but you'll never convince me The Colour and The Shape is anything but one of the all-time greatest albums. The Foo does rock live, have seen them a half dozen times now. Even stood about 10 feet from Dave in a Toronto radio studio while he got interviewed once back in '97 (I think). Too cool for words. He told an amazing story about playing with Iggy Pop when he himself was a nobody - said Iggy showed up in Toronto sans band, just himself, and saw Dave and his band out in the alley after they had sound checked in earlier and gotten the boot by the suits. Iggy asked if anyone played drums and guitar, and Dave and one of his bandmates said yes. Iggy asked them to sound check with him and told them they would go on at 11...

-----

Thanks for the advice, Kelly and Mike. I read Extraordinary Golf, thought it was okay, didn't help me much. The main thing I need is time, which is a lot of what Jason needs as well. I'm certainly not giving up on him, he's only 6.

I wish I had the guts to tell you where I thought I'd be. Sure wasn't here. It some ways I'm better off here, though I'd have a hard time saying that today. Maybe tomorrow.

-----

Here's another thing folks don't know about me, or more specifically, about my wife. She has an insanely amazing singing voice. I'm lucky enough to know a lot of people great at a lot of things, but I don't think I know anyone as naturally gifted as Bonnie is with her voice. Her range is like no one I've heard - male baritone to female high soprano. Her power is almost frightening, and I don't even know if I've ever really heard her unleash it in full. But the most amazing thing about her voice is the clarity. She can sing a soft lullaby to our son that is just as clear as a bell. Simply amazing. She's a high school teacher who missed her calling. I'm hoping Mark Rowlinson will find himself in the Burgh someday so I can get a knowledgeable opinion.

My experiences with Kelly Blake Moran - I'm incredibly ashamed I haven't made it out to tee it up at one of his eastern PA courses yet. But I have exchanged many an email or message with Kelly and have always been impressed with his love of the game, which shines through when you read his experiences. Congrats on the recent ace! If you haven't read any of Paul Daley's terrific tomes on architecture, Kelly has written for them and his work there is excellent as well.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I share that story so I can offer the following, do as I say, not as I do, advice: If you want to be good at trivia and other meaningless stuff, learn a little about a lot. If you want to succeed in life, learn a lot about a little.

...and if you want to be happy in life?


George thanks for posting on here, I always open a thread you're on.


Care to fill in a few details of how you moved from Wall St to "small businessman"?  (I hope I have that correct).  Tony

[Sean_A]

George

This series has been great and I appreciate all your effort in making it happen!

Are the Pens one and done?  The Pens didn't finish like they did last year and it seems to me their defense is not what it was last year with the loss of Scuderi (I like this guy a lot and wish the Wings could have afforded him) and Gill.  I know they picked up Leopold in a bit of a flyer deal to see what comes of this yet unproven man.  Is this enough to keep the barbarians at the gate?  

Ciao

My pleasure, hope you'll join the fun one day.

Certainly isn't off to a promising start!

I will say, I don't think the defense or the chemistry are quite there right now, and I'm not really a believer that you can find that sort of thing quickly. I think they're too young to say they might be done, however. The talent is just so young - Sid, Gino, Flower, Jordy - depends on if they can keep them together and find a few Scuderi types to fill in the gaps.

But damn last year was fun. I've gotten soft in my old age, I'm more than happy to spread out the success. I used to be greedier. The loss to the Islanders in 93 was just brutal. That Pens team should've won a few more for sure.

George, yes, that early 90s Pens team was special, but the club went heavily into debt to buy those cups (tee hee).  It seems the Pens have always been in financial difficulties.  Is it true that the Pens intentionally dumped the last part of the 83/84 season to draft Lemieux - in order to save the club from folding?  That has always been the scuttlebutt, but one never knows. 

Ciao

[George Pazin]

I share that story so I can offer the following, do as I say, not as I do, advice: If you want to be good at trivia and other meaningless stuff, learn a little about a lot. If you want to succeed in life, learn a lot about a little.

...and if you want to be happy in life?


George thanks for posting on here, I always open a thread you're on.


Care to fill in a few details of how you moved from Wall St to "small businessman"?  (I hope I have that correct).  Tony

Thanks, Tony.

I was frustrated after spending a couple years in the corporate finance area of investment banking. We did stock offerings, asset sales, that sort of thing, and I just really found it boring. Because I also found the environment to be way more political than I like, I decided I wanted to be my own boss. Shortly after leaving, a friend and I were visitng another friend at UMich med school. While shopping for a gift for my friend's girlfriend, I kept seeing the college boxers and thinking, why didn't I think of that? Then I had the idea of putting the logos on medical scrubs, and the friend I traveled out with and I decided to through caution to the wind and go for it.

That idea didn't work out that great. In retrospect, we should have known we were a couple of eggheads who didn't really know how to market a clothing fad. But the good news is that by purchasing the equipment and teaching myself how to print, I developed a different business, almost by accident.

That business has either been the worst decision or the best decision of my life. It changes daily, largely depending on the client! It is a little frustrating to see all of my college peers doing great, taking golf trips, joining big name clubs, while I struggle in a business that really doesn't match my skill set.

But my business did allow me one thing that I feel you can't put a price on: about 5 years ago, I stepped back a little from my shop and became a Mr. Mom during most of the day. I have an incredibly close relationship with my son as a result - in fact, my sisters jokingly call me his mom. A lot of my business struggles are due to this, but I am hoping when he starts going to school full time next year, things will improve.

[b[My experiences with Tony[/b] - Tony was a natural for me to have early on in the GTK series. Though we haven't met in person, we've exchanged messages and emails for awhile now and I knew his personality would fit the idea well, and if you read his thread, you will know I was vindicated in that guess! Thanks, Tony. Hope we can meet and tee it up someday.

[Steve Wilson]

Considering that you I go all the way back to Inniscrone, I'm appallingly late to this party.

I want to begin by saying you are one of the bravest men I know.  A Pitt graduate venturing to a GCA outing in West Virginia less than a year after 13-9.  There are so many places to hide a body in the terrain around Pete Dye Golf Course.
 
Another non-golf remark.  Will WVU ever beat Pitt in football when it really, really, really hurts Pitt as badly as they have us.  Perhaps Pitt’s inability to make a Final Four is attributable to cosmic justice for their gridiron success against us in 2007, 2005 1989, 1982 1970, 1966, 1956 1955, and 1954.  Not that I am old or have a long memory.
Why do Pitt’s uniforms look like WVU’s should?  Love that dusky gold and dark blue.  I remember Pitt wearing royal blue not so long ago.
I can only agree wholeheartedly with this:  “If you want to be good at trivia and other meaningless stuff, learn a little about a lot. If you want to succeed in life, learn a lot about a little.”
I think this was summarized by categorizing people as either foxes or badgers.

Someday you really should get to a Dixie Cup.  I’m planning on going again this year, so if you need a ride…

And as soon as I get another set of pictures of Preston, I'm finally going to post that "My Home Course."  Procrastination compounded by a hard drive crash are my current excuses.  I'll be stealing liberally from your post about the course long ago.

[George Pazin]

George, yes, that early 90s Pens team was special, but the club went heavily into debt to buy those cups (tee hee).  It seems the Pens have always been in financial difficulties.  Is it true that the Pens intentionally dumped the last part of the 83/84 season to draft Lemieux - in order to save the club from folding?  That has always been the scuttlebutt, but one never knows.  

Ciao

Don't know about the rumors. I will say, it's hard for any sport to succeed in the Burgh other than football. And until the mid 90s, baseball was still a professional sport in Pittsburgh...Plus, I don't know that the economics for hockey really work anywhere. It is considered the 4th major pro sport, but the revenues pale in comparison to the other 3, even though the salaries often don't!

My experiences with Sean (apologies for forgetting this earlier) - Sean is yet another poster I haven't met that I consider a good friend, in spite of his left leanings... If you haven't checked out his many many unbelievably great photo tours of UK courses, you have seriously shortchanged yourself. Sean remains one of the most insightful of us regular golfers out there, even if his position on bunkers doesn't allow him membership to the Golfclubatlas Frilly Bunkers Society.

[George Pazin]

My experiences with RJ Daley (another one I forgot earlier, sorry) - Gotta admit, Dick - and I call him that as a friend who's under the impression that's what his friends call him, please correct me if I'm wrong! - has been on the site longer than me, one of a handful who can make that claim. And he knows waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than me, too (another useful occasion for Mattspeak). In fact, I'd go so far as to say Dick probably knows more about gca than damn near anyone who doesn't actually work in the industry. And he's one of the nicest guys, to boot. Unfortunately Dick had some health issues right around the NM Land of Enchantment outing, or I'm sure I would have some fond memories of him joining Adam and me in west Texas. I sure wish he had seen Rawls and Black Mesa, I would love to have learned from him. He might have even had my back with BM and hh'ers...or maybe not, he's certainly a better golfer and man than me!

[George Pazin]

I want to begin by saying you are one of the bravest men I know.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this... I'd still be the poorest Penn '89 grad, just one with a nickel.

13-9. That game was so unbelievable that I'm not entirely certain it actually happened, it may have just been a dream. It they ever develop a Pitt Panther football cable channel, they should run that game every day. That and the Sugar Bowl where Danny hit John Brown in stride, what a game. For me, every bit as thrilling as the vaunted BC/Miami game where Flutie stuck a dagger in the hearts of all Hurricanes.

I actually miss the royal blue. That's what Pitt wore in the glory days of Tony and Danny, so it still warms my heart. Hopefully Dion Lewis will take the navy and old gold to a new level next year.

My experiences with Steve - I've been lucky enough to be at a couple outings with Steve, and also lucky enough to have joined him for a terrific day down at Preston in WV. Steve's another kindred spirit for me - hope that doesn't damn him by association - and I greatly look forward to joining him for another round someday soon. Maybe if we ever get together at outing at Bedford Springs.

[Garland Bayley]

OK, Mr. Mathematician, what were your favorite and best mathematical topics while in school?

As an analytical thinker, what do you think of the parade of gotta have new club tweaks and features?

As an analytical thinker, what are subjective measures of great GCA, if any?

[George Pazin]

Last post for a bit (you're welcome):

Brushes with golfclubatlas greatness

I've been lucky to attend several outings, both official (Inniscrone, NM and Baltusrol) and unofficial (Pete Dye). (Plus, I feel like I attend Buda, Dixie and the Kings Putter in spirit every year.) So I've met quite a few of the posters, especially the big name guys.

My first outing was in '01 at Inniscrone. Now I think by now everyone knows I'm not a very proficient golfer, but I can usually hold my own and not embarrass myself. It sure didn't feel that way that fateful Thursday morning in August, however. I stood on the range, not knowing a soul, hitting my favorite club, my 7 iron, usually good for a nice, relatively straight and long ball flight. Not that morning - I was hitting 60-70 screaming slices that would have made Jim Courier and his inside out forehand proud. As I walked over the meet some people, the first person I met was Ran. He was much younger than I expected (that's usually the first thing I hear from gca'ers when they meet me), and he greeted me warmly and asked if I had found a foursome yet. I said no, and he said with a smile, why don't you play with me and Pat? I responded nervously that I wasn't very good and I didn't really think I belonged in the show pairing. Ran laughed and I ended up having a fantastic day with Jamie Slonis (sweetest swing I've ever seen in person), Geoff Child and Brad Miller. Jamie carried my 200 lbs to victory, and I performed my customary "win 1 hole" contribution (I think I halved a couple, too).

Tom Paul and Pat Mucci are everything you'd expect, and more. In contrast to his aggressive personality online, Pat is one of the friendliest guys you'd ever want to meet. In fact, Pat and I were having a complete free for all shortly before the Baltusrol winter get together, and several suggested on the thread that there might be fisticuffs when we got together. Instead, Pat greeted me with a huge smile and I gave him a golfclubatlas t shirt as a conciliatory gesture. One thing you have to realize with Pat is that while he is grilling folks with his green questions, he is laughing his butt off and really treats it as friends giving each s@#$ at the 19th hole.

Not too much to say about Tom P other than he's king cool in my book.

I'll share more about others later.

[Jason Topp]

George:

I need to echo the Oakmont thread comments.  One of the best I have ever read.  I feel like I know the course even though I have never been there.  I particularly like the fact that the pictures are from late in the year (or early).  The brown grass makes it easier to get a sense for the contour of the land.

How often do you play?
Given no restrictions on money or distance where would you take your next golf trip?
What book do you recommend to someone who is interested in architecture but new to reading about the subject?
If you were to build your dream course where would you build it and what type of course would it be?

[Garland Bayley]

...
Given no restrictions on money or distance where would you take your next golf trip?
...

Barnbougle and Lost Farms