What Would a Ten Handicap Shoot at Augusta Today?

[Ben Sims]

Sean,

I'm not a good player.  I've played Olympic Lake, Riviera, and seen Augusta.  I really think Augusta would be my undoing on the tee moreso than those other Tour courses were.

[Tim Gavrich]

Ben--

Interesting that you say that, because I think that ANGC would be less of a problem than most courses off the tee for the simple fact that there is no long rough.  It's all short, tight fairway and "first cut," which is probably a little shorter than the semi-rough at most courses.  I think that if a mid-handicap player does not wail away at every drive, he should be able to get the ball near the green without too much problem (relatively speaking, of course) on many holes. 

Like many have said, it would be all about the game from 100 yards and in.  I think a good caddy would save a 10 handicapper a whole lot of strokes around and on those greens.  I really think there would be a sporting chance of breaking 100 if you gave me a 10 handicapper who went out, knew it was going to be a bloodbath, and played for bogey on every hole.  I'd give such a player a 15-20% chance of breaking 100.

I am a scratch player and I have always thought that of all courses where the American major championships are held, ANGC would yield my best chance of breaking 80, largely because of the lack of long rough. Of the players in the field this year, I'd say I would be in the 20th percentile in terms of driving distance (that is to say, 80% of the field would be hitting it further than me on average).  If I had a decent day hitting my irons (which I consider the strongest part of my game historically), I might be able to give myself at least a few looks at birdie, especially on the par 5s.  If I did that and kept my wits about me the rest of the way, I think I might be able to shoot 78 or so.

If you took me to Bethpage or Oakmont or Medinah and had me play those courses at US Open/PGA Championship setup, I wouldn't break 85.  Any shot into that kind of rough would spell at least bogey 90% of the time.  But at Augusta, I'd be in short rough or pine straw (two surfaces with which I'm quite familiar, if not 100% comfortable).  I love fast greens, so I think I would be excited to step up to every putt at ANGC, which might help.

NB: I played a practice round with Byeong-Hun ("Ben") An, who shot 78-77 this year, a few years ago before an AJGA tournament.  If Manassero made the cut there, I think that An probably could have as well.  I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility for me to shoot 78 if I played well.  So, if my scratch would be more like +6 or +7 at ANGC, I would estimate that a 10 hcp would have to add twice that, so another +12 to +14, for +22 or +24, making "par" effectively 94 or 96.  I think it would be possible to break 100, but a good caddy would be crucial.

--Tim

[Joe Bausch]

100 golfers with a legit 10 handicap could have played there today.  No more than 2 would have broken 100, IMO.  Will we ever know?  Nope.  Not at ANGC.  But I'm confident in my belief.

[Tim Martin]

I don`t think there is a 10 handicap on the planet who would break 100 on the Masters set up. Forget about the member tees. The thread asks the question from 7400 yards.

[archie_struthers]

 

A  couple of nineties , maybe one guys breaks ninety and a bunch of 100 +++++ in a field of 80 ten-cappers

[Bill Gayne]

Hole 1 Par 4 445 yards. Fourth shot chip on green with three putts 7
Hole 2 Par 5 575 yards Fourth shot on green two putts 6
Hole 3 Par 4 350 yards Drive into the the woods recovery shot two putts 5
Hole 4 Par 3 240 yards Green is missed and landings areas to chip to is incredibly small. Putting disaster 7
Hole 5 Par 4 455 yards On in three with three putts 6
Hole 6 Par 3 180 yards On in two with three putts 5
Hole 7 Par 4 450 Yards In bunker in two, two out, two putts 6
Hole 8 Par 5 570 Yards Five on green with three putss 8 
Hole 9 Par 4 460 Yards False front kills the ten handicapper 8

Front nine score 58

I think the back would be just as difficult. So a total in the 115 range.

[Pete_Pittock]

If the golfer plays intelligent golf, which to me would be to forget par and try to get in correct position for a two-putt bogey, they should be in good shape to shoot right at 100.

[Ben Sims]

I am not a 10 'cap.  Close to a 13 I would think.  But I find that three-quarters of my doubles or worse are taken with a lost ball.  On the front 9 at Augusta, how many lost balls are you going to have?  Then, of the 4 forced carries over water on the back, maybe 2 of those will get lost? 

I don't know why, but when I was at the course, I felt like I could have handled myself in the 90-100 range from the members tees.  That's no worse than I played at Olympic.  And that was from a similar "member" distance. 

I just don't see all the fire and brimstone being thrown around here.  Some guys are predicting average of 110.  Seriously?

[Tim Martin]

I am not a 10 'cap.  Close to a 13 I would think.  But I find that three-quarters of my doubles or worse are taken with a lost ball.  On the front 9 at Augusta, how many lost balls are you going to have?  Then, of the 4 forced carries over water on the back, maybe 2 of those will get lost? 

I don't know why, but when I was at the course, I felt like I could have handled myself in the 90-100 range from the members tees.  That's no worse than I played at Olympic.  And that was from a similar "member" distance. 

I just don't see all the fire and brimstone being thrown around here.  Some guys are predicting average of 110.  Seriously?

Ben-The question is from 7400 yards. Aint happening.

[Patrick_Mucci]

If the golfer plays intelligent golf, which to me would be to forget par and try to get in correct position for a two-putt bogey, they should be in good shape to shoot right at 100.

Pete,

As Mike Tyson says, "Everybody's got a game plan, until they get hit."

With those contoured and sloped greens at 13, conceeding two putts is overly generous.

I can see three, four and five putts on # 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 16.

In addition, what you lose on TV is the depth of those bunkers.  They're really, really deep.
A high handicapper, not proficient at bunker play could be in there for days.

Then, add the water hazards that can kill a round on # 11, 12, 13, 15 and 16.

Believe me, the approach to 13 and 15 is intimidating from 20 to 200 yards.

The other factor not really seen on TV is the cant of the fairways.
# 2, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17, and 18 don't present ideal lies.

Unlike TEPaul and Ran, I believe in and practice intelligent play, but even the best game plan goes awry when the golfer doesn't execute as well as he thinks.

[Chip Gaskins]

again, its about the 6 inches between your ears.  you are freaking out that you are playing augusta. 

maybe if your are Mr. Mucci and you play it all the time then maybe you can settle in and shot a decent number, but for the first timer anything short of a scratch handicap AND from the Masters tees you will struggle to break 100.  period.

[John_Conley]

The problem a 10 handicapper has in breaking 100 isn't putting at all.  What's the worst he can do?  Even if you have something like 9 three-putts (and I don't think it would be that many because they won't hit any or many greens) you still can recognize the numbers on your card.

From the Sunday tees - and that's what this thread is asking - decent golfers have almost no chance to get any drives in play with a chance to reach the green.  For a normal guy, you have to KILL it just to get in play.  Take holes like 10, 11, 13 (would play as a 3-shotter), 17 (tree encroaching), 18...you get my point.

On the other hand, predictions of 110 or 120 are way off.  It isn't the kind of course where a guy is going to lose a ton of balls or incur penalty strokes on every hole.  Playing their game, it won't surprise me for a 10 handicap to par holes like 13 and 15.  Think of it - the big numbers the pros put up on holes there are due to attemts at heroic shots.  Just about anyone in question is going to have no chance to reach 13 and 15 so they'll play conservative.

I'll say over 100 only because the tees are back so far.  But not much over.  102 maybe?

No surprise for the 10 to shoot a 92 from the member tees.

[Jim Nugent]

It looks WAY tighter than it is, and from the members tees, its really wide open.

The question in this thread is from the tips, though, not the members' tees.  Do you think it's an easy, wide-open driving course for 10s from the Masters tees? 

[Philippe Binette]

If you're a 10 handicap and play smart, 87-88 is possible, common sense would be 93-95. That is if your 10 handicap player is smebody who hits it 230, fairly straight and a decent short game.

Here's why, even with the length, and actually becaue of the length, the course would not be intimidating of the tee... because the rough is short and the bunkers are out of play since they are too far for a 10 handicap.

A player playing with a bogey golf strategy on par 3 and 4... basically he is not going for green in regulation, just in good position for a pitch.
He has a realistic chance at par on the par

with that strategy expect:
3 times 3putts = lead to +2 bogey golf
1 15-footer would drop for a par = -1 bogey golf
2 times 2-putt par = -2 bogey golf
1 indirect mistake = +1 bogey golf
1 mistake = + 2 bogey golf

there you go 92

[Pete_Pittock]

Patrick,
My strategy allows 50 full shots (3 on 4s and 5s, 2 on 3s) and 45 putts (9 three putts) which leaves 4 foozles to keep it in double digits.
I've walked the course for three days, but somehow my collapsible club which can be hidden up my sleeve was confiscated. Have played courses with big bunkers, and I have hit it sideways or backwards to escape. Number one rule is keep it below the hole, number two rule avoid hazards, number three rule lay up to a full (pitching, sand, lob) wedge. Fourth rule is use the DH rule to my advantage.

Willl play away from the Sarazen bridge (was it there when you played  ?) to open up the green. #15 is the only one which I know will fester.

[Philippe Binette]

remember, my player is not trying any shot, just advanced the ball (driver hybrid) leave you with 50 yards or less in, dont chip for the flag, chip for 20 feet below the hole and two putt.


adrian, you said a 10 handicap would it 5 greens... not a single chance in the world, might get 2 par-5s if lucky, can't reach the par 4's in 2 strokes (too long except 3... but that's way too hard of a target to give it)... maybe hit the 6th and 16th green if lucky...

3 greens in regulation would be an accomplishement


augusta is a hit it, find it, hit it again course... so if you are smart, anything is possible and play YOUR game.

[Pat Burke]

The Sunday setup and greens at the same speed, I am currently a +3.
Don't play or practice much, but still can fly it around 270, hit my irons well, don't make a ton of putts but lag well.
If I showed up at Augusta today, my par would be somewhere around 78.
Good day chipping, maybe sniff par.
Bad day chipping/pitching, 83/84.  Greens that fast with such tight lies around them, going to have a lot 8-10 footers

Lay up on 15, even to the correct spot, and I would be defensive with the downhill tight lie.
And not being tournament sharp, those "going to sleep" moments are going to produce a frightening number somewhere

[Andrew Mitchell]

I've just had a Twitter exchange with Shane O'Donoghue who did the post round interviews for the BBC.

He played yesterday and shot 79 gross off a 5 handicap with birdies at 2, 8, 14 & 18.

He said they played a variety of tees but played off the Masters tees at 10 holes, namely 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15 & 16.

I've no idea of the distance difference for the members tees at 1, 4, 6, 8, 10, 14, 17 & 18 but 79 off 5 hcap seems seriously good golf to me.   I assume he got some good pre round advice from Sam Torrance & Ken Brown though

[Kalen Braley]

If anyone is qualified to comment here its Pat..

I think he's right on the money about putting up some big numbers, cause all it takes is a few bad shots on the wrong holes and now that 10 capper is looking at 2-3 snowmen on the card.  Throw in the regular dose of bogeys and double bogeys and it'd be tough to break 100.

[Tim Nugent]

I wonder how many here have actually played greens rolling a 13?  Where a missed 4'er can yield a longer putt coming back and you talking to yourself.  The guys you were watching live on a steady diet of speed and have the touch to go with it.  To be able to Hit  spot say 8'over on a 30' putt that you have to just breath on is not in many 10's playbook.  Not to mention them just trying to stop their approaches on the green, let alone in some specific spot. Or even knoeing where that spot is (or being able to trust the caddy if they have).  And as for as off the tee, most 10's hit it about 250-270.  That's still leaves a lot of real estate.  Plus, if you are in the trees, most 10's aren't threading the needle like the guys on TV, so they are either punching out or playing pin-ball.

[Sean Leary]

It looks WAY tighter than it is, and from the members tees, its really wide open.

The question in this thread is from the tips, though, not the members' tees.  Do you think it's an easy, wide-open driving course for 10s from the Masters tees? 

Easy, no. Wide open, yes, except for a couple of holes.

[Jim Nugent]

It looks WAY tighter than it is, and from the members tees, its really wide open.

The question in this thread is from the tips, though, not the members' tees.  Do you think it's an easy, wide-open driving course for 10s from the Masters tees? 

Easy, no. Wide open, yes, except for a couple of holes.

On TV, the holes that look real tight off the tee (tips) are:  7, 10, 11, 13, 17, 18.  Am I off on any of those? 

[Bob_Huntley]

I posted before and opined that no ten handicapper would break a hundred. I hear some of the comments about intelligent play etc., but I ask this question of everyone. How many of you play to your handicap in your own club championship qualifying round? Not many I bet.

I saw 72 low handicap amateurs trying to qualify on the Shore Course at MPCC a couple of years ago, and some of the scores were off the charts and this at 6800 yards. The greens were rolling at 13 and very few guys could handle them.

7400 yards is a long haul.

bob

[Sean Leary]

It looks WAY tighter than it is, and from the members tees, its really wide open.

The question in this thread is from the tips, though, not the members' tees.  Do you think it's an easy, wide-open driving course for 10s from the Masters tees? 

Easy, no. Wide open, yes, except for a couple of holes.

On TV, the holes that look real tight off the tee (tips) are:  7, 10, 11, 13, 17, 18.  Am I off on any of those? 

From the tips, 10 and 13 are quite open. Open is a relative term, of course, but I was honestly surprised how gid the corridors are. The other thing is that all the trees on the interior of the course are places where you would definitely find your ball, and have some sort of shot.

[Jfaspen]

I think what a "10" would shoot would depend on how the person played.

If i was a media member or if I ever got a random invite to play, I'd probably be playing with the hero's mentality.  Ie. I'd try to hit the sling hook on 2 and 13.  If given the chance, even a small one, I'd go for it on 13 and 15.  I'd probably hit driver more than I needed to and I'd probably be firing at way too many flags hoping to make a couple of birdies.

If I was playing there a few times over a couple days, I'd probably relax and play smart.  Aim for middle of the green, use some more 3 woods, etc.

I just think it'd be too tempting to try to hit a couple of hero shots if you only had one round there.

And for the record, as a 10, I think I could break 100 from the member tees and come damn close from the back tees.