What Would a Ten Handicap Shoot at Augusta Today?

[Rick Sides]

I have a question for the group.  If a group of let's say 10 handicappers walked onto Augusta National today, the day after the Masters, and stepped up to back tees (about 7,400 yards) , what would he shoot?  I know this sounds a bit like the US Open Challenge, but i was just curious what number a 10 handicap would honestly ( no mulligans, gimmee putts, etc) from the tips? 

[Kalen Braley]

I think they would have a hard time breaking 95 or so due to all the big numbers they would put up on a few holes.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rick,

Shame on you.

The course rating/slope would have to be adjusted to reflect the true difficulty of the course yesterday.

You should know that their index would be part of the adjustment based on the course rating/slope from 7,400+.

Hence, their 10 might convert to an 18 from the Championship tees with the greens at 13-14.

7,400+ is so long when you consider how short the par 5's are.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Does AGNC have a rating/slope? I don't think so. I know they have their own handicapping system for members.

The golf writers,selected by lottery, usually play the course today. I remember Joe Logan or Mike Kern of the Philly papers wrote an article on their lucky day.Perhaps there will be an article tomorrow by some lucky golf writer.

[Cliff Hamm]

I truly believe that even if played from the second shot of the pros (first shot on par 3) the 10 handicapper would have trouble breaking 85.  Yes, the pros are long.  But how many times do they get it up and down?  How many 3 putts?  Now think about the 10.  If the average score was 73 the 10 handicapper would be at least 12 shots worse, if not more,  playing from the second shot.  Make sense?

[Jim Nugent]

One way to get a sense for this is to see how the golf writers shoot the day after the Masters.  They play members' tees, not the tips.  Didn't Doak say he shot high, even from those tees?  Low 90s is what I recall.  

My guess is the ten shoots over 100.  Putting alone would cost him a lot of strokes, especially with Masters pins.  Seems to me also that many par 4s would play more like par 5s.  7, 9, 10, 11, 18...and maybe 14, 17 and 1 as well.  

#15 could really be a terror.  Can't see the ten getting on in two.  So his third shot is a short to medium iron off a steeply downhill lie, to a shallow green fronted by water.  Some very high scores likely there.  

[Brent Hutto]

Stableford points? A 10-handicap who doesn't melt down on scary greens might do OK. Then again there might not be any such 10-handicapper extant. Medal play? Too many "others" to even sniff breaking 100 would be my guess. Couple pars, several bogeys, but a least a half-dozen 8's, 9's, 10's, whatevers when he gets in the wrong spot relative to the green and take three or four tries to get it somewhere that he can play a shot he knows how to play.

[Terry Lavin]

I'll let you know tomorrow, because my friend, the golf writer for the Chicago Tribune, won a spot in the media lottery to play today.  I think he's a 13 and I bet he'll shoot 105 from the members' tees.

[Ken Moum]

Does AGNC have a rating/slope? I don't think so. I know they have their own handicapping system for members.

Dean Knuth, who invented the system, has rerated it and cam up with 78.1 course rating and a slope of 137. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/golf-masters/2010-04/how-tough-augusta-knuth

Whic points out one of my biggest objections to the current US handicap system--the fact that there isn't enough difference between the high and low ends of slope and rating..  IMHO, having walked the course on Tuesday and Wednesday of the tournament in 2005, othere's no possibility that rating a slope are high enough to account for the difference between ANGC and a "standard" golf course.

In fact, after being there, I estimated that if I took some of the 18-20 handicappers play with at my home course there and gave them 18 GIRs in, about a significant portion of them couldn't break 90.  In other words, they would average more than 3 putt If you let me pick the worst place to putt from, I bet half to three-quarters couldn't break 90.

On a hole like 15, even if they put their ball in perfect position in two, hitting that shot off a downhill lie to a green that well above them, with water in front and behind, and a surface that is firm and smoking fast is simply beyond their ability.

I am a 10 index who has is a much better chipper and putter than ballstriker, and I there are several tee shots on ANGC that i don't think i could survive from the championship tees.  The 18th is a good example.  From the member's tee, its tough but not impossible. From the back tee, it's like hittiing out of a high-school hallway.

And there's NO chance I could go down there today and shoot in the 90s from the back tees.

K

[jonathan_becker]

I don't know what a 10 would shoot, but i'd bet he would have a ton of chips and putts. 

By a ton, I mean probably upwards of half of his total strokes after he hits his first putt or chip on every hole.

[Jason Topp]

My friend who is scratch with an incredible short game played it from the back tees for two rounds when the course was wet and the greens far slower than they are for the tournament.  The first round he had the round of his life and shot 76, the same score he shot earlier in the day from the members tees.  The second round, he felt like he hit it just as well but shot 85.  I would think faster green speeds would add a minimum of 3 shots.

[Rick Sides]

Of course I know about the handicap system and I know that a select group of the media gets to play Augusta today.  I'm more interested in knowing what the 10 handicap from 7,400 yards would shoot today.   I was just looking at that course thinking of how long some of those par 4's are and how terrifying some greens look.  I wonder what score could be made by a 10 like me.

[TEPaul]

Rick:


Some years ago I believe they tried an experiment something like that at Baltusrol. They brought in a fairly large number of very good mid-amateur tournament players and set the course up with similar conditioning to the recent US Open played there. Apparently none of them could break 80.

[Terry Lavin]

A friend of mine played there two weeks before the Masters.  He's one of the top mid-amateurs in Illinois, with a plus 1 handicap.  He played in windy and cold conditions from the back tees with the greens running around 11 and shot something like 83.  He thought it was harder than Butler National which is the toughest course hereabouts.

[Sean_A]

I think I would have a chance to break 100 on the second go - as a 9 capper.  I think I would need to chip and putt well to break 100 on the first go.  I reckon there are a handful of par 4s I couldn't even reach from the back tee unless I creamed a drive.  7400 yard is a LONG course - way too long for a guy who carries the ball 225 yards.  Bottom line, I wouldn't bet on myself to break 100 on the first go.

Ciao

[Chip Gaskins]

don't underestimate how your brain turns to mush for most of the round.  the ability to focus and execute is impossible.

[jonathan_becker]

don't underestimate how your brain turns to mush for most of the round.  the ability to focus and execute is impossible.

I was just thinking the same thing.  That's a great point that most people forget to factor in. 

The 10s that say that they are good chippers and putters....well, that may be relative to his/her own game, but on a course like Augusta, a 10s short game will more than likely be humiliated.  From there, let the meltdown begin!! 

[David Royer]

I just returned from Augusta.  My guess is a 10 would shoot somewhere from 95-105 with 35 to 40 putts.  Two reasons, length and lies as well as the greens would eat them up from speed and undulation.  Having played Oakmont it appeared to me that the greens at Augusta were of table top speed.

[Carl Nichols]

I'm a mid-single-digit player (currently a 4.5 index), but my strength is ball-striking and my weakness is the short game, especially pitching and chipping.  I doubt I would break 100 as the course was set up yesterday.  The only reason I hesitate is because it seems like there are plently of places where I could putt from off the green, which I'm reasonably good at. 

[Mark Arata]

I will take the bet that a 10 hdcp would have a tough time breaking 90 if you put him on every green in regulation. These guys have 50-60 rounds on this course and misread putts, what would a 10 hdcp do if facing a putt from the front of 2 to that back pin placement yesterday?  You could be looking at some 4 or 5 putts on those greens if you put them in the worst spots.......

I would love to have the chance to find out though, thats for sure!

[George Pazin]

Probably depends on what the 10s game is like and where he normally plays. A 10 at Oakmont or Oakland Hills or somewhere like that wouldn't be overwhelmed by the greens, but almost anywhere else, I think it might be a shock.

I wouldn't be shocked if a 10 or 13 had a couple Xs, so are we talking adjusted score or actual...

[Jeff Martz]

A 108 would be a double bogey on every hole.  I'm about a 14 hdcp and on my best day I think I would be happy with that score.

[jonathan_becker]

Shivas said this "Let me put it another, simpler way - I'll bet he takes at least 65-70 strokes from inside 40 yards. "

Shivas,

You're probably not too far off.

The posters that talk about a 10 breaking 100 need to remember that a 10 hdcp's short game is not good.   Not only is it not good, but put under the details of what this thread is calling for, like I previously stated, a 10 hdcp's short game will be humiliated.

I mean no ill intent, it's just an undeniable fact.

[James Boon]

I've played a couple of 7,000 plus yard courses from the very back tees and as a short hitter, the biggest difference I noticed was all the fairway bunkers were out of range so unless I carved one into the trees, there wasn't much trouble from the tee.

Having said that, there aren't that many fairway bunkers at Augusta, so that may not help much    As a 6 handicap, with a half decent short game, I'd like to think i could make a decent showing of myself on some holes, but I bet when it starts going wrong, it goes wrong big time...

Cheers,

James

[Ted Kramer]

100+.
No chance at breaking 100.
A 10 wouldn't hit the greens in reg and have basically NO chance of getting up and down.
It would be a blood bath.