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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« on: April 11, 2010, 04:19:40 PM »
 If so , does anything else really matter? If the size, shape, and contours are his it really is the essence of the course.
AKA Mayday

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 04:35:16 PM »
There is a whole lot of RTJ and a little bit of Fazio out there.
H.P.S.

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 04:41:52 PM »
is there any Maxwell in the greens? (perhaps my memory is faulty)

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 04:44:54 PM »
 Are those changes significant or just tinkering?
AKA Mayday

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2010, 04:48:11 PM »
Greens  2 thru 7 so far today are proving to be the story.
AKA Mayday

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2010, 05:00:46 PM »
Almost none of them are his anymore

#3 is the closest, having the complex and contours changed the least

#s 7, 10 and 16 are completely obliterated from the original design

#s 1, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18 are close enough to the original dimensions and flows to not quibble.

#s 2 and 4 occupy the original landforms but the complex has changed enough to call it Non-Mackenzie.

#9  had the essential charcter but used to have a boomerang portion in today's back left that wrapped around a stylish bunker presentation.

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2010, 05:14:14 PM »
 Thanks for that analysis. At least most of the ones I was impressed with early in the round today are close.
AKA Mayday

Ian Andrew

Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »
Here’s a run down of the changes to greens:

The 1st green was reduced in size but remains a Mackenzie green, The 2nd green was extended twice at player’s suggestions, the third green is a Maxwell green, the 4th was softened and rebuilt by Maxwell, the 5th was an original Mackenzie recently softened by Fazio, at the 6th upper plateau was done by Maxwell and the rest is Mackenzie, the 7th is a new green site built by Maxwell, the 8th was rebuilt twice with the second time largely being a restoration by Byron Nelson and Joe Finger, the 9th was rebuilt by Maxwell, the 10th was relocated to lengthen the hole and done by Maxwell, the 11th was expanded left by Jones but the right appears to be part of the Mackenzie green, the 12th green was raised two feet in the 1960’s (architect may not have been used), the 13th was rebuilt by Cobb softened extensively by Nicklaus, the 14th is an original, the 15th was extended left by Fazio but remains largely a Mackenzie, the 16th is a new hole and green by Jones, the 17th is a Mackenzie and the 18th was rebuilt by Maxwell.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2010, 05:57:43 PM »
Is Maxwell an improvement over MacKenzie?
AKA Mayday

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 06:10:46 PM »
Ian,

Can you give out the provenance on the 3rd being a Maxwell re-do?

Almost every bit of literature and early photography I've seen indicate that the 3rd is the least disturbed Mackenzie green site from 1932

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Ian Andrew

Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2010, 06:21:00 PM »
Can you give out the provenance on the 3rd being a Maxwell re-do?
Almost every bit of literature and early photography I've seen indicate that the 3rd is the least disturbed Mackenzie green site from 1932

"The third green was the first of the seven altered by Perry Maxwell, the sum of his work apparently being the shaving of some front-right putting surface and, perhaps, some reduction in overall contour. "

comment was from an article by Daniel Wexler

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2010, 07:00:36 PM »
Ian

Thanks for that, I certainly don't blame you for posting it but I've got to track down Daniel Wexler for his provenance, especially since his original text has the key words, "apparently," and "perhaps" in relation to the whole description.

For completeness it should be noted that Inaugural "Masters" (then Augusta N.I.T) winner Horton smith was in charge of the conceptualization, if not the implementation of the massive design change inherent in 7 where the green was moved 25 yards further back and to the right (slightly closer to the 17th fairway) and completely re-envisoned from the original concept, a general replica of the 18th St. Andrews, an almost driveable par 4 with big bold green contours.

My primary sources on everything I've said are...

1. Augusta National and the Masters: A Photographer's Scrapbook - by Frank Christian w/ Cal Brown
2. Alister's Mackenzie's Masterpiece: the Augusta National Golf Club by Stan Byrdy
3. The Making of the Masters: Clifford Roberts, Augusta National and Golf's Most Prestigious Tournament by David Owen

and various eras of golf mags articles from over the years.

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie completely responsible for Augusta greens?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 07:22:23 PM »
Feherty referred to AGNC as a "Jones/MacKenzie" design. He's never heard of all the work that's been done there by others or he forgot to use the words "orginally designed by"

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

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