Confidential Guide Return Visit?

[Keith OHalloran]

After posting in regard to the work that St George on Long Island has done lately, it occured to me, that they have addressed several of the issues that Tom Doak had with their course in the Confidential Guide. Specifically, they have removed a ton of trees. I am assuming that had the Guide come out after the work was done, the review and possibly the rating would be better.
I guess my question for Tom Doak specifically, and the rest of us in general is, how many courses have you seen that you believe would be worthy of a higher rating based upon recent work they have done to the course?

[mike_malone]

 Tough to go from a 7 to an 8, but Rolling Green has done a phenomenal job of tree removal and bunker restoration to go back to the originally designed look.

[John Moore II]

Tom has talked about a few on here that he might revisit, and some that he would consider revising the ranking just based on time. I know Pine Needles was one of the courses that he said would likely go up after their renovation. Beyond that, I am not sure.

[Sean_A]

Doak stated that fixed up, Yeamans Hall would be terrific.  He originally gave it a 5.  I seem to recall Doak saying somewhere that he thinks the most a course would go up after a SUCCESSFUL RENO/REDO/WHATEVER is 1 point.  It would be interesting to know if Doak still believes this to be the case.  Just from using my own ratings and knowing how they compare to Doak's, my bet is he would give YHC a 7 today. 

Ciao   

[Jud_T]

My guess is that Skokie and Lawsonia might uptick from 6 to 7 post renovations/tree removal....

[John Moore II]

Doak stated that fixed up, Yeamans Hall would be terrific.  He originally gave it a 5.  I seem to recall Doak saying somewhere that he thinks the most a course would go up after a SUCCESSFUL RENO/REDO/WHATEVER is 1 point.  It would be interesting to know if Doak still believes this to be the case.  Just from using my own ratings and knowing how they compare to Doak's, my bet is he would give YHC a 7 today. 

Ciao   

Interesting you say that. I say the exact same thing about Pine Needles. Originally a 5, but now I think it would be considered a 7. Its at nearly the same level as the best course I've played thus far, and I don't think that course is good enough to be considered an 8.

[Carl Rogers]

How do any of you rank Pacific Dunes or Old MacDonald?

[Sean_A]

Doak stated that fixed up, Yeamans Hall would be terrific.  He originally gave it a 5.  I seem to recall Doak saying somewhere that he thinks the most a course would go up after a SUCCESSFUL RENO/REDO/WHATEVER is 1 point.  It would be interesting to know if Doak still believes this to be the case.  Just from using my own ratings and knowing how they compare to Doak's, my bet is he would give YHC a 7 today. 

Ciao   

Interesting you say that. I say the exact same thing about Pine Needles. Originally a 5, but now I think it would be considered a 7. Its at nearly the same level as the best course I've played thus far, and I don't think that course is good enough to be considered an 8.

John

Just judging from my experience in comparing my ratings with Doak's, I would be highly surprised if Doak gave it more than a 6.  Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if it remained a 5. not.  Its not as if Pine Needles is a polarizing course which would generate a wild disparity of ratings.

Ciao

[Michael Rossi]

How do any of you rank Pacific Dunes or Old MacDonald?

Pac and Mac are minimum of 7 on the Doak scale, but with the amount of player that make the trip I was lead to believe at least an 8, after getting to play both course, for me Pac is 9 and Mac is 10.

As Mac matures Doak may have to go spinal tap and add an 11 to the dial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN5SCRvhMtk

[Tony_Muldoon]

Two for consideration.  I don't have the book to hand but..

Portsalon.   Tom said he had trouble seeing a course at all.  Ruddy did a sensitve overhaul and it goes from a 3(1?) to 6 easy.  Rich seemed to rate it much higher still.

Reigate Hill. Was it a six with a comment saying 6 great holes and two poor and an average finish to undermines this courses claim to be one of the greatest 9 holers?  Well holes 7 & 8 have been redone and I hope to get there with camera this year.

[Tom_Doak]

Doak stated that fixed up, Yeamans Hall would be terrific.  He originally gave it a 5.  I seem to recall Doak saying somewhere that he thinks the most a course would go up after a SUCCESSFUL RENO/REDO/WHATEVER is 1 point.  It would be interesting to know if Doak still believes this to be the case.  Just from using my own ratings and knowing how they compare to Doak's, my bet is he would give YHC a 7 today. 

Ciao   

Sean:

I would almost certainly give Yeamans Hall a 7 now.  My one-point rule was for courses which are removing trees and re-doing bunkers.  Yeamans' greens were totally messed up the first time I saw them, and they are terrific now thanks to the work Jim Urbina did under my direction.  That's worth more than one point ... but probably not three.

Tony:

I did go to Portsalon a couple of years back and really enjoyed the new course.  Certainly different than when I first saw it and it looked nearly abandoned, although the wildness of the original was also appealing in its own way.

[John Moore II]

Doak stated that fixed up, Yeamans Hall would be terrific.  He originally gave it a 5.  I seem to recall Doak saying somewhere that he thinks the most a course would go up after a SUCCESSFUL RENO/REDO/WHATEVER is 1 point.  It would be interesting to know if Doak still believes this to be the case.  Just from using my own ratings and knowing how they compare to Doak's, my bet is he would give YHC a 7 today. 

Ciao   

Interesting you say that. I say the exact same thing about Pine Needles. Originally a 5, but now I think it would be considered a 7. Its at nearly the same level as the best course I've played thus far, and I don't think that course is good enough to be considered an 8.

John

Just judging from my experience in comparing my ratings with Doak's, I would be highly surprised if Doak gave it more than a 6.  Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if it remained a 5. not.  Its not as if Pine Needles is a polarizing course which would generate a wild disparity of ratings.

Ciao

Well, I think its good enough to be a 7. That's my opinion. I've played the course in winter, spring and summer. I've seen it in just about all conditions. I've walked around Pinehurst #2, and I frankly don't think Needles is too many notches below #2. The greens at Needles don't have quite as much interest, but the greens and surrounds have more than enough movement to give them a good amount of character. Tom might disagree that Needles is a 7, and that's fine; after all, these are all just opinions.