Berkshire Redesign.

[Thomas McQuillan]

 ''Thomson Perrett & Lobb (TPL) has been appointed to consult on and oversee design work on two historic courses close to London, The Berkshire Golf Club and The Richmond Golf Club, Surrey.

The Berkshire has appointed TPL to analyse the playing strategy on both courses and return its 69 bunkers to a more traditional look, while using modern construction techniques and specifications to ensure longevity.

”We are looking at incorporating the heathland elements, including heather, native grasses and rougher edges into the bunker complexes, to give them an authentic look but with a slightly more modern feel,” said Tim Lobb. “They will be constructed to the highest technical specification to ensure good playability, maintenance and longevity.

“The goal is to refurbish all of our bunkers improving the way they play, their drainage and their shape, returning them to the heather-topped look that the original designer, Herbert Fowler, created,” said John Hunt, secretary of The Berkshire Golf Club.

At The Richmond Golf Club, Surrey, TPL will oversee a complete review of the Tom Dunn designed course, which opened in 1891, with special attention to bunkering, including the renovation and reshaping of existing bunkers and the addition of new, strategic hazards.

Work will be completed in two stages, from September 2010 and then again from September 2011, over the winter months.''

Good or bad news? Anyone know anything else on the project?

[Kevin Pallier]

Thomas

I'm a little concerned re: the Berkshire. The heathbelt has a unique style of bunkering and as far as I know the T&P side of things have little design experience in the UK ? I know Thomson did the Dukes course in Scotland which was recently redone.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm puzzled that the Berkshire think there's a problem with their bunker look, I wonder what they'll be doing?  The problem I have with the Berkshire the last couple of years has been the way they have narrowed their fairways to toughen life up for competitors in the Berkshire Trophy.  I have tended to play there the following week, so it may be these fairway widths get widened again for most of the year but there have been some very slim fairways, particularly on the Red.  Overall, though, not courses I have thought needed much change, if any.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Kevin, Tim Lobb has worked in the UK for most of his career, firstly for EGD before becoming a partner of Thomson & Perrett... His (and EGD's) office are sited in the heart of the surrey sandbelt.

I'll be interested to see what they have planned but I suggest that it is a renovation and not a redesign...

If they can return the style to that closest to some of the old photos I've seen, then I think it is worthwhile... Obviously a subtle touch is key...

[Brian Phillips]

As Ally mentioned Tim Lobb has worked in the area pretty much all of his career and knows the Surrey courses intimately.

My only worry with TPL getting the job is that they are very much a drawing based company without their own shapers.  I don't care how good they draw up their CAD work it is still going to come down to the Greenkeeping team or the shapers to really get that "old" look back on many of the bunkers at The Berkshire. At least the club have chosen a company close to the course so that "hands on" management is possible from the design team.

Tim and his team (Andrew Goosen) will put their heart into this project and I am sure they will deliver the goods.

I am just happy it has not gone to a foreign company (although Tim is an Aussie and Andrew is South African) and has been given to a guy that loves the heathland courses (Tim).

[Scott Warren]

Has Tim done much previous work on Heathland courses?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Has Tim done much previous work on Heathland courses?

Scott, I think the relevant question is "Who has done much work on heathland courses in recent times?"... Hawtree, MacKenzie and Ebert, very few others...

One of the great things about the heathlands is that they are relatively untouched... But that has a flip side as well... Many of the bunkers have lost their original aesthetic appeal and there has been too much tree and vegetation growth, killing off the heather... If they are just looking at a bunker renovation / restoration program with maybe a few changes to positioning for strategy, then that is no bad thing in principle, as long as the work fits... It's when they start to go all Ernie Els on us that we need to worry... I'm pretty sure TPL won't do that...

[Scott Warren]

I am just happy it has not gone to a foreign company (although Tim is an Aussie and Andrew is South African).

Quick question:

If you say Tim is an Aussie, and Ross Perrett is an Aussie, and Five Times Thomson is an Aussie, and Berkshire is in England... how is TPL not a foreign company?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I am just happy it has not gone to a foreign company (although Tim is an Aussie and Andrew is South African).

Quick question:

If you say Tim is an Aussie, and Ross Perrett is an Aussie, and Five Times Thomson is an Aussie, and Berkshire is in England... how is TPL not a foreign company?

Thomson, Perrett & Lobb are the European and Middle East firm, based in the UK... Thomson & Perrett are the Australia and Asia firm, based in Australia... In other words, Tim is the UK wing of the company...

[Adam Lawrence]

Tim is a mate, so I am not unbiased on this, but I will relate one thing he said to me while we were playing the Red last December: "The only bunkers that look right on this course are the ones that aren't in play any more" (which is to say, those are the only original ones that survive). I think he gets it.

[Tony_Muldoon]

One of the great opening views in Golf. The Red.


Their Greenkeeper is quite well known but as usual the name escapes me.  He’s written a no of sound articles and hopefully he’ll be involved.

I suspect there’s been a no of changes over the years.  It will be interesting to see what research they carry out as some think Simpson was involved?

I was last there about 5 years ago and they were building a new back tee on 18 Blue and a practice area behind the green.  







It s got to be a good thing if they come up with a sensitive masterplan. It may persuade more of these clubs to do the same.


Some contrasting bunker styles (I wonder if both courses started with the same style).

[Adam Lawrence]

Chris Lomas is the greenkeeper, and he's a very good guy. Which reminds me that Chris, Andy Brown from Toro, Jonathan Gaunt and a bunch of other golf industry types are doing the Three Peaks Challenge in July in aid of Battle Back Golf, a charity that encourages seriously injured military personnel to take part in sport as part of their rehabilitation - I'm sure they'd appreciate any help from GCA - see www.bmycharity.com/H4H3PeaksChallengeBattleBackAndyBrown

[Brian Phillips]

I am just happy it has not gone to a foreign company (although Tim is an Aussie and Andrew is South African).

Quick question:

If you say Tim is an Aussie, and Ross Perrett is an Aussie, and Five Times Thomson is an Aussie, and Berkshire is in England... how is TPL not a foreign company?

Because it is a limited company run in England, with a Managing Director and Associate that live in Engand....just because it is owned by Aussies does not make this company foreign. 

[Scott Warren]

Because it is a limited company run in England, with a Managing Director and Associate that live in Engand....just because it is owned by Aussies does not make this company foreign. 

Thomson, Perrett & Lobb are the European and Middle East firm, based in the UK... Thomson & Perrett are the Australia and Asia firm, based in Australia... In other words, Tim is the UK wing of the company...

Thanks guys. I understood as much, I suppose our ideas of "not foreign" vary.

I'm not suggesting they won't do a good job, though it does appear to be something of a leap of faith.

[Brian Phillips]

Scott,

They will put their heart into the job but it will still come down to who is doing the shaping and how much hand work they are budgeting for.  If they are budgeting for just mini diggers and very little "spade" work then it will be a struggle.  I would reckon they need at least 50-60% hand work to be budgeted into the spec.

They are going to have to "chunk" a hell of a lot to get it right.  The other problem is going to be finding the balance between making sure they "chunk" enough heather on the edges as much of it might die away.  If I was doing the work I would probably over "chunk" and then work it back over a few years.

[Sean_A]

All this fuss over the shaping of bunkers.  Its tantamount to a full employment law for archies.  What a waste, but not in the least surprising.  Golf clubs have to count as among some of the biggest wasters of all. 

Ciao

[Brian Phillips]

All this fuss over the shaping of bunkers.  Its tantamount to a full employment law for archies.  What a waste, but not in the least surprising.  Golf clubs have to count as among some of the biggest wasters of all. 

Ciao

I am lost Sean...?

[Sean_A]

All this fuss over the shaping of bunkers.  Its tantamount to a full employment law for archies.  What a waste, but not in the least surprising.  Golf clubs have to count as among some of the biggest wasters of all. 

Ciao

I am lost Sean...?

Brian

The bunkers look fine.

Ciao

[David_Elvins]

The company obviously has a strong love for the heathland courses.  their course at Carya in Turkey was modelled on the heathland style of The Berkshire.

The course is inspired by the traditional old English style heathland courses in the surrey area outside of London such as Wentworth, Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire. Creating Carya Golf Course has involved planting of close to 1 million heather plants to strengthen the heathland environment already existing.

“This is an exceptional piece of land on which to build a golf course. It is reminiscent of the famous Surrey heathland courses near London that I rate among the world's best and which I was fortunate to enjoy much success on in my playing days. I am very excited about the prospect of TPL creating a classic, traditional style course in Turkey.”

“What sets Carya Golf Club apart is its traditional and classic style...It’s an outstanding site that has enabled us to create a free flowing, expansive and highly natural course.

“Heather is renowned in the UK as a feature of some of our finest golf courses, including Sunningdale, Walton Heath and The Berkshire. I think it is tremendous that Thomson Perrett & Lobb is emulating the character of these classic courses in Turkey, where heather already grows naturally, and has gone the extra mile to achieve that goal.”

[Scott Warren]

Great post David

I love GCA!

Nearly as much as I love that fountain two pics below the artist's comment about the "highly natural course".

[Ally Mcintosh]

Do you like the look of the course photos above Scott?

[Brian Phillips]

Sean Arble,

I disagree that all the bunkers are fine, here are some examples of the bunker problems.

The first one is poor drainage although the bunker shape is superb.



Next one pretty much the same, great shape but poor drainage.



This bunker has lost it's ruggedness and it is probably this type that they will reshape, although I am not saying that this actual bunker will be reshaped.



This bunker looks like it has been "modernised" with a tongue created in the middle which does not quite work.

[Sean_A]

Sean Arble,

I disagree that all the bunkers are fine, here are some examples of the bunker problems.

The first one is poor drainage although the bunker shape is superb.



Next one pretty much the same, great shape but poor drainage.



This bunker has lost it's ruggedness and it is probably this type that they will reshape, although I am not saying that this actual bunker will be reshaped.



This bunker looks like it has been "modernised" with a tongue created in the middle which does not quite work.

Brian

If the bunkers flood often and not just after serious rain, that isn't really a re-shaping job - its a drainage job which I am all for.  If its a job to spend money on aesthetics - no, I wouldn't be in favour.  Clubs waste too much on aesthetics when most of the time its a fad thing or someone's opinion.  To each is own - I am not a bunker slut so could care less how they look so long as they are in the ball park.  Berkshire's bunkers don't even approach the warning tracks.  Shit, I would say rip out some of the suckers, but The Berkshire is fairly light on bunkers.  That said, I think Woking's new bunkers were well done and the new bunker on New Zealand's 16th is well done.  Mind you, Woking hiked their visitor visitor fee - I would rather save a tenner and play the with the old bunkers.

I am hoping those pix of the firm doing the bunkers isn't meant to be an endorsement.  Its awfully hard to tell fact from fiction in them.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

Do you like the look of the course photos above Scott?

I haven't got an issue with the course. Hard to pass judgement without playing it, and doubly so when the pics look photoshopped to within an inch of their life.

What amused me about David E's post was how at odds a number of the quotes are with the imagery. I don't think Thomson does himself any favours with the optimistic comparisons he is known to make about his courses. Much the same as Gary Player referring to a series of seaside courses his firm has built/is building as "the next Pebble Beach" or words to that effect.

I just wonder why these architects don't let their work just be and speak for itself.

But if that is what TPL comes up with when its architects set out to be inspired by the London Heathlands, I'd admit to some concern, speaking humbly as a retail golfer who loves heathland courses.

Do you like the look of the course photos?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Scott,

I don't think the comments from Peter Thomson or Tim Lobb are anything more than Sales / good PR.... there is nowhere in those words where an outrageous claim is made such as the one you cite from Gary Player...

As it happens, I do like the look of the course - very much... There appears to be width, the land flows beautifully and hasn't been overshaped, the bunkers are artistic and there seems to be a good number of playing options (I've seen plenty more photos than these mind)...

I agree about the photoshopping though... the purple in that first photo really jumps out at you and the edges look very doctored....

Sean,

In my opinion, drainage is all part of the renovation but to improve the drainage, reshaping is often necessary... In addition, it makes perfect sense to try and bring back a singular style (such as the shape on Blue 13)... Too many of the heathland courses have about 3 or 4 different styles of bunkers from incremental small changes by greenstaff over the years...