Favorite Devereux Emmet Holes

[mark chalfant]

Devereux is underrated...


Garden City 2.   137 yards   Pitch shot over  a quarry

Powelton 10.  380  yards   A short approach shot  to narrow undulating green where missing either to the right side or going long spell disaster



Huntington 7      531 yards to a very good " Road Hole" green.

Which Emmet holes come to mind from Glen Head, Bonnie Briar, Wee Burn, Rockville  etc.  ? 

[John Foley]

Mark,

From Leatherstocking:

- #8 but I think the green site which makes it special to me is all Cupp
- #12 short leasy but I love the way it works in the routing
- #13 short hole, pretty simple tee shot, but what a great green site.

When did the holes across the road come itno play? I think it's 1919 but I have seen no confirmation of this.

[JNC Lyon]

Leatherstocking just has so many that are great.  I love all of the par fives there, especially the long 11th with the sunken green and the sidehill 15th with a punchbowl green.

I would love to know more about how manufactured Leatherstocking is.  The ground features on the first 16 holes are so varied and diverse, and it seems that some of.  How did he construct the rumpled fairway at the 8th?  The elevated green at the 2nd?  The huge mound in the fairway on 13?  Very cool.

[Chris_Blakely]

Devereux is underrated...

Garden City #2   137 yards  over quarry
Powelton #10  (Newburgh NY)      380 yards  approach to narrow undulating green where both the right side and long are  death
Huntington  #7      531 yards to  a very good " Road Hole" green.

Which holes come to mind form Leatherstocking, Wee Burn, Cherry Valley  etc.

I think I suggested #10 to you or others on a previous Emmet thread.  Powelton's #10 is a very good hole.  I believe the Powelton's 12 hole there has a very unique Emmet green as well.

Chris

[Ronald Montesano]

When I spoke with the pro at Leatherstocking last summer, he indicated that they realized what Cupp might force on the Emmett (two Ts in his last name) greens, so they didn't let him touch them.  His work was NOT on the greens.

If you go here (http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Leatherstocking%201/) and here (http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/buffalogolfer/Leatherstocking%201/Leatherstocking%202/), you can see about 250 shots of Leatherstocking.

As far as favorite holes, I like 13 and 14 at Leatherstocking...I also like 2 and 7.  All are strategic par fours, of the short and mid length variety.

[Kyle Harris]

Let's throw the 2nd on Bethpage Green in the mix.

[Chris_Blakely]

Unfortunately, the 7th hole green at Huntington CC was not designed by Emmet, but rather by the longtime superintendent their I believe - Robert Emmons knows the name of the designer.

However since we are nominating great Emmet holes from Huntington, how about the following:

The 8th is a solid short par 4 with a well bunkered green

I love the 10th hole - drive has to be in the right spot or it will be a blind approach

The 11th is a classic bottle kneck hole, the longer you drive the ball, the tighter it gets - if you are long or right on your pitch, the ball is gone
12th is a sporty short par 3 over a ravine
13th is a gorgeous hole with a rolling fairway
15 is again a hole where if you are going to drive the ball long, you better be accurate as to claer the rough on the hill is not easy - hole tighterus up around the greeen.
16 is another scenic par 4 with wild sepentine bunkering in the left rough.  Approach is usually blind to this enormous green that was recatpured during the restoration
18 has principal's nose qualities like 16 and the approach can be blind if too far to the right.

I will give St. George's a shot later.

Chris

[Keith OHalloran]

I really like the 12th at St. George's. And for anyone that has not seen St George (on Long Island) in a few years, I would recommend going back. They have done a tree removal over several years, they have also changed several mowing paterns,such as shaving the second fairway right into the 18th fairway. I believe that they may have the guidance of Gil Hanse. The course looks great.

[ChipOat]

Keith OHalleron got it.  Nobody knows about St. George's including many so-called Emmet enthusiasts.  Emmet built it as his "National".  It's as hidden a gem as Inwood - maybe more so.

[BCyrgalis]

Kyle,

Is No. 2 on Bethpage Green really a good Emmet hole, or is it just the best Emmet green around the New York area?  I'd have to say the latter.  I'd even say I enjoy No. 3, the uphill par-3, more.

But if you're looking for great holes on the Green Course, look at Nos. 17 and 18 -- arguably the best closing Emmet holes anywhere.  (Especially No. 17, with that cross bunker 40 yards short of the green.  That was a great hole even before they restored the water hazard to the left of the fairway.)  Any thoughts on better Emmet closing holes?

And, you know, I'm raking my brain trying to think of a great hole on Eisenhower Red, but I can't.  A course I really like, without a hole that I can point to as outstanding.  Isn't that odd -- or maybe I'm just wrong?

[Tom MacWood]

#10 at Huntington is my favorite. The most dramatic hole on the course, and one of the most unique holes I've ever run across. #2 at Garden City is a very close second, followed by #18 at St. George's.

[John Blain]

Actually the opening hole at Mohawk Golf Club in Schenectady, New York is as good as any starting hole anywhere. Speaking of Mohawk GC it is a terrific Devereux Emmett course and one you could play everyday.

 http://www.mohawkgolfclub.com/tour.php

-John

[mark chalfant]

At St. Georges  12 and 13  are strong back to back par fours.  At 13 the terrain is bold moraine style !    Number 15 (155 yards)  has a fabulous green with some striking movement,  that often leads to three putt country .  I agree with others that the  18 th at SG is a wonderful dog leg finisher

[Phil_the_Author]

Brett,

Sorry to do this, but the only Emmet hole of the ones that you mentioned from Bethpage Green is the 3rd. Both the 2nd and the 17th are redesigned holes by Tillinghast and the 18th, as is the 1st, are original Tillinghast designed holes.

[TEPaul]

It's a bit of a diversion of this thread but how would you all who seem to have some experience with Dev Emmet's best holes stack them up against the best holes of Herbert Leeds' Myopia?

The primary reason I ask the question is I think Leeds and Emmet basically produced the FIRST best architecture in America. Obviously by that I mean Myopia and GCGC because they were both so early in American architecture!

[BCyrgalis]

Phil,

Thanks for the correction.  As I was writing it, I was unsure if Nos. 17 and 18 of Bethpage Green were redesigned by Tilly when Lennox Hills was converted, but I kind of let it fly anyway.  At least I was right about No. 3, and I'd still take it over No. 2.

I think that's really the tough thing about this thread, too.  Because Emmet's stuff is so old, his courses have evolved so much it's hard to really pinpoint what is "his" and what isn't.  I remember being at Pelham CC, which was originally designed by Emmet, and looking at the second hole there and thinking, "well, this looks out of place."  (It's a 200+ par-3, big, deep bunkers and a sloping green.)  Of course, it was, because it was a brand new hole -- the result of the highway being built right through the grounds of the property in the '40's -- and Emmet had nothing to do with it.  So ... it takes a little more historical knowledge to know which holes really are "Emmet holes" and which holes are just those on a course that has Emmet's name attached to it.  Again, Phil, thanks for the correction -- only here is that kind of specific knowledge so readily volunteered.   

[Tim Gavrich]

I know that the course consists of some Emmet holes and some non-Emmet holes, but the CC of Farmington has some excellent ones.  My two favorites are #s 1 and 18.  #1 is a beguiling little 285 yard par 4 and 18 is a brute--210 yard downhill par 3 to an extremely elusive green.

#1




#18

[Patrick_Mucci]

Keith & Chip,

I really like St George's, it's a neat course with a good number of very unique holes.

It has an "eccentric" quality about it that I love, plus, there's no "sameness"

Each hole is quite distinctive.

A good friend of mine is a member.  
I only wish it was closer.

I believe that I started a thread on it a few years ago

[Robert Emmons]

to all,

great to see a Dev thread...good holes left at St George's,Wee Burn, and Farmington....

Huntington's 7th was done in 1922 when the pro had returned from summer play in Scotland. after seeing the road hole the staff tried a interpretation of the hole and asked Dev to help....

the major changes took place in 1929 when Dev did a full renovation....

Huntington has 16 original greens with 13 and 14 the most controversial, most bunkering intact, and routing never changed...

holes to note....7 road hole,

                      8 short par 4 with good cross bunkers and green that falls away on 3 sides
                   
                      10 severe elevation drop par 4 with positioning important

                      11 bottle hole short par 4 with heavy back to front green

                      12 short hole 142 yards

                      13 roller coaster par 4 with blind second shot to severe sloped green

                      14 medium par 3 to severe green

                      15 par 5 with blind second or third and good greenside mounding and bunkering

                      16 par 4 with bind second, good cross bunkers and huge green

                      18 uphill par 4 with principal nose bunker complex forcing positioning

Many interesting, fun, thoughtful and different holes....RHE   

[BCyrgalis]

I am reviving this old thread because I was just looking at the wikimapia images (which, by the way, is one of the best sites in the world for looking at golf courses) and realized how good Huntington is.  (To use wikimapia, just put in a course's name into google and then add the word wikimapia to the end -- it's great, believe me.)

I played some high school golf at Huntington-- another note for that "Great Courses Played in High School" thread -- and kind of took it for granted.  St. Anthony's played all their home matches there, and they were our fiercest rival, so I was more focused on playing well and beating my man rather than understanding the wonderful intricacies of Emmet's design.

I always loved the Road Hole seventh, as it actually has a road running through it (although it only resembles the real Road Hole in the green complex).  From what I remember, it's kind of an elevated tee box, and then the second is blind as the fairway rises once it gets over the road.  The the Road Hole green complex is great, with a very shallow putting surface (even for a road hole). 

I always loved the second hole, too.  It's almost a cape-like tee shot -- bite off as much as you can chew -- and somehow I always managed to hit it out of bounds on the right.  Beacuse it's up the hill, it's also a blind shot, so I had to trudge back to that tee once or twice -- ugh.  The second was also quite interesting, with the bunker short-left making the depth perception hard to judge.

Only played the back nine a couple times -- we played nine-hole matches after school -- but from the map, it looks like there are some real dandies back there as well (a couple terrific par-3s).

Any more thoughts on Huntington? 

[Dave Falkner]

Pat
very good  point about no sameness at St Georges.

Keith you need to come out and see St Georges now we cut down about another 100 trees this winter
the vistas are incredible! 

my fave hole is 18 great fairway (especially now that it doubles with 2) and great  green complex

[jeffwarne]

Devereux is underrated...

Garden City #2   137 yards  over quarry
Powelton #10  (Newburgh NY)      380 yards  approach to narrow undulating green where both the right side and long are  death
Huntington  #7      531 yards to  a very good " Road Hole" green.

Which holes come to mind form Leatherstocking, Wee Burn, Cherry Valley  etc.

I think I suggested #10 to you or others on a previous Emmet thread.  Powelton's #10 is a very good hole.  I believe the Powelton's 12 hole there has a very unique Emmet green as well.

Chris

Played this gem in a MET Sr. Open Qualifier Thursday-a near 24 hour odyssey with a 5 hour drive each way and a brief nap in a hotel.


WELL worth it-what a cool course! (and I had never heard of it) and yes, I hit it slightly long and right on #10-eventually up, up, and down for double as part of an ugly 5 hole stretch that fortunately was bookended by good play early and late.


Some unusual holes-in fact my favorite kind've hole-the 258 yard par 4 with not a ton of fear(risk reward not silly), but super premium on execution.
great greens-similar to Goat Hill in spots


Seeing incredibly interesting courses like this with exciting greens and terrific scale only steels my resolve to slow the equipment and agronomy arms race and preserve more of these gems and their interesting designs and challenges

[Rick Lane]

Devereux is underrated...


Garden City 2.   137 yards   Pitch shot over  a quarry

Powelton 10.  380  yards   A short approach shot  to narrow undulating green where missing either to the right side or going long spell disaster



Huntington 7      531 yards to a very good " Road Hole" green.

Which Emmet holes come to mind from Glen Head, Bonnie Briar, Wee Burn, Rockville  etc.  ?

I love the Island Green 16th at Wee Burn.   Maybe the earliest Island green in USA??  Also, looking at the 1934 aerial of Wee Burn, #8 was a par five crossing the creek, and #9 was a 200 yard par three, which I think is more interesting than the way those two holes are now, wonder when and why they changed them?
I am also a fan of a lot of the holes at Ridgewood in Danbury CT.....3-11, also 14. 

[Matthew Prince]

#12-15 at St George's is as good a stretch of four holes as you will find just about anywhere. I know some of you think it's a crime against humanity to post pictures of golf courses, so here is your warning to avert your eyes. 

First pic is #12 going out on the left, with #13 coming back on the right. Second pic is the stellar par 3 15th.


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