[Matthew Essig]

Hole 11 - par 3
Back - 220
Middle - 160
Front - 115

This par 3 uses some qualities of a reverse redan. The bunker is guarded right by a deep bunker. The green and area short of the green all slope towards the back right corner of the green.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 12 - par 4
Back - 510
Middle - 440
Front - 400

*Optional par 5 for women

This hole does not play its true yardage as tee shots will tend to roll a long ways. As the fairway slopes to the right, players may have to flirt with the fairway bunker. The green tilts toward the right green side bunker, with a back left shelf.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 13 - par 4
Back - 440
Middle - 340
Front - 260

The tee shot will have to be hit over the first massively deep fairway bunker and short right of the second massively deep fairway bunker. The green is fairly large, but is guarded by a deep falloff left and a bunker right. The green slopes toward the falloff.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 14 - par 3
Back - 170
Middle - 125
Front - 95

This picturesque par 3 sits out on a peninsula, with falloffs on all sides. The green slopes toward the deep bunker.

[Matthew Essig]

(Favorite hole)

Hole 15 - par 5
Back - 625
Middle - 525
Front - 430

This hole wraps around a big hill and contains two bunkers that you may never forget. The tee shot must travel past the massive bunker built into the hill. If a slice or fairly big cut can be hit, you can reach the skyline green. If not, the layup must be hit over another massive bunker built into a rise in the hole. The skyline green slopes from back left to front right and is guarded by bunkers back left and front right and by a fall off 5+ yards in front of the green.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 16 - par 4
Back - 470
Middle - 380
Front - 270

On the tee, players will face a downhill tee shot to a very wide fairway with two centerline bunkers and a bunker left. For pins in the front and back, players may want to hit out to the right for a better angle, but a longer approach. The green contains low back and front thirds and a high middle third with the entire green sloping to the left.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 17 - par 3
Back - 180
Middle - 150
Front - 105

The classic difficult par 3. The green is protected short and right by water, and left by a bunker. The green slopes toward the water with a back left shelf.

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 18 - par 4
Back - 470
Middle - 410
Front - 360

A brutal finishing hole. The uphill drive must be hit onto an angled fairway guarded by water and a huge bunker. The uphill approach must be hit well to a green guarded short right and long by bunkers and left by water. The green slopes toward the water with a bowl in the right "wing."



So, what do people think, especially the modifications to 6-9?

Side-note: I will start working on showing you all the original 36 hole routing I had, but I will say it now, the east course is not great.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 11 - par 3
Back - 220
Middle - 160
Front - 115

This par 3 uses some qualities of a reverse redan. The bunker is guarded right by a deep bunker. The green and area short of the green all slope towards the back right corner of the green.

The back of the tee is blind. You have to move a bunch of dirt to make this work anything like a redan. Redans are usually level or slightly above the tee, not running downslope.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 12 - par 4
Back - 510
Middle - 440
Front - 400

*Optional par 5 for women

This hole does not play its true yardage as tee shots will tend to roll a long ways. As the fairway slopes to the right, players may have to flirt with the fairway bunker. The green tilts toward the right green side bunker, with a back left shelf.

Of course it will play near its yardage. The green is at the same level as the tee. This is truly a bomb and gouge hole, as playing straight at the green is the play in anything but the worst rough possible.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 13 - par 4
Back - 440
Middle - 340
Front - 260

The tee shot will have to be hit over the first massively deep fairway bunker and short right of the second massively deep fairway bunker. The green is fairly large, but is guarded by a deep falloff left and a bunker right. The green slopes toward the falloff.

To have a fall off left you will need to move a lot of dirt. I was liking the hole for its kickplate left until you said there is a fall off there that you will have to dig.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 14 - par 3
Back - 170
Middle - 125
Front - 95

This picturesque par 3 sits out on a peninsula, with falloffs on all sides. The green slopes toward the deep bunker.

This is the best hole I have seen so far. You have used the terrain to create a simple, but challenging hole.

[Garland Bayley]

(Favorite hole)

Hole 15 - par 5
Back - 625
Middle - 525
Front - 430

This hole wraps around a big hill and contains two bunkers that you may never forget. The tee shot must travel past the massive bunker built into the hill. If a slice or fairly big cut can be hit, you can reach the skyline green. If not, the layup must be hit over another massive bunker built into a rise in the hole. The skyline green slopes from back left to front right and is guarded by bunkers back left and front right and by a fall off 5+ yards in front of the green.

Are your doglegs too sharp? Once again, I think I'm setting off cross country to play this hole. The fairway slopes significantly away from the dogleg so it makes even harder to make progress towards the hole. It looks like the green would be visible from the back tee, but not from playing the fairway. You say it is skyline, but it looks to be set over the saddle and would actually be blind from the fairway. I don't think a center fairway bunker is a good idea here with the significant reverse camber slope to the fairway.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 16 - par 4
Back - 470
Middle - 380
Front - 270

On the tee, players will face a downhill tee shot to a very wide fairway with two centerline bunkers and a bunker left. For pins in the front and back, players may want to hit out to the right for a better angle, but a longer approach. The green contains low back and front thirds and a high middle third with the entire green sloping to the left.

I agree with Alex. This is the best hole by far. Among other choices are risky drive way left to perhaps least risky approach, vs safe drive way right to perhaps most risky approach.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 17 - par 3
Back - 180
Middle - 150
Front - 105

The classic difficult par 3. The green is protected short and right by water, and left by a bunker. The green slopes toward the water with a back left shelf.

The land the hole is on is not that interesting, but you make up for it with good use of the stream.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 18 - par 4
Back - 470
Middle - 410
Front - 360

A brutal finishing hole. The uphill drive must be hit onto an angled fairway guarded by water and a huge bunker. The uphill approach must be hit well to a green guarded short right and long by bunkers and left by water. The green slopes toward the water with a bowl in the right "wing."



So, what do people think, especially the modifications to 6-9?

Side-note: I will start working on showing you all the original 36 hole routing I had, but I will say it now, the east course is not great.

Looks pretty good to me. Stream hazard all down the left, with interesting terrain on the right creating ridges and bowls of sorts to work with.

[Matthew Essig]

Garland,

#11
From what I have seen, more dirt is going to be taken out from the site than used. So, other than the hill between 4 tee and 10, the dirt could raise the teeing area up that little bit, and shave down the hill slightly. I'm sure no one would notice after the course is completed.
#13
The fall off left is already there. Many people used the low area as a bunker.
#15
The right edge of the fairway is what is tilted. Most of the fairway is not too sloped, not like Olympic.
#14,16,17,18
Thanks for the kind words.

What about the changes to 6-9.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 7 - par 4
Back - 475
Middle - 420
Back - 400

*Optional par 5 for women

The bunker is further to carry off the tee the more left a player aims. The green is surrounded by a slight fall-off right, a pot bunker left, a bunker in the rear, and a bunker about 10+ yards in front of the green. The green slopes from back left to front right.

Now that all of the fairway slants away from the drive, how is the high handicapper supposed to ever hit one in the fairway? How about the right handed slicer? Is he just dead here?

[Matthew Essig]

Hole 7 - par 4
Back - 475
Middle - 420
Back - 400

*Optional par 5 for women

The bunker is further to carry off the tee the more left a player aims. The green is surrounded by a slight fall-off right, a pot bunker left, a bunker in the rear, and a bunker about 10+ yards in front of the green. The green slopes from back left to front right.

Now that all of the fairway slants away from the drive, how is the high handicapper supposed to ever hit one in the fairway? How about the right handed slicer? Is he just dead here?

No

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 8 - par 4
Back - 450
Middle - 360
Front - 290

The tee shot must either be layed up short of the bunker, or fit in the 30-yard fairway between the water and the bunker. The green is relatively flat, but the general tilt is towards the water.

The water hazard makes this feel some like #3 at Wine Valley. I guess I would like a long detour route out to the right that would allow a player to play the hole without having to carry the water at any place. This avoids the criticism of #3 at Wine Valley, where most think the only route is out to the right. The problem with Wine Valley is that the fairway left and short of the pond gains you little, whereas playing the fairway close to the pond on your hole gains you significant distance. Once suckered into playing left of the tee at Wine Valley, few would chose to do so again. Your hole doesn't seem to have that problem.

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 9 - par 4
Back - 500
Middle - 430
Front - 340

The tee shot is straight forward. Just make sure you don't get lazy because of the width and easiness as missing the fairway makes the approach extremely difficult. The green has 2 ripples dividing the green into left, middle, and right thirds.

Better than before. But, as you know, I don't like ponds.

Your shortest hole from the back tees is 400 yards. Shortest from middle tees is 340. Where are the par 3.5 holes? I'm afraid most people are going to think of your course as just a long slog.

[Matthew Essig]

Those are just the distances from the back, middle, and front part of the teeing areas. The tees could be moved up compared to these distances or there could be more sets of tees. Whatever makes the customer happy. 

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