News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« on: March 31, 2010, 04:39:17 PM »
Some of the most fun at the World Golf Summit was a Friday morning outing to this restored private nine-hole course near Cupar, where they hand you a set of hickory clubs to go out and play nine holes.

It is a beautiful setting in the backyard of an historically preserved mansion, with the sharp Hill of Tarvit rising just behind the home.  The total course is just 2,200 yards, with three "bogey" 3's and a single bogey 5 (at 370 yards).  Still, with the hickories, getting home in two is not so easy, particularly as the hole plays around a wooded corner.

We played a Pinehurst foursomes system and personally, I had a blast.  The "restoration" of the course included considerable changes to the routing to avoid crossovers, and whoever did the work showed a very good touch for aligning the holes on good views and keeping greens and tees close together, so that it was a very quick round as well as a pretty one.  It's hard to tell someone in the vicinity of St. Andrews to make time for such a venue, but I thought it was excellent and I think golf would be better off if we could get everyone to try a course like this for a change.

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 07:01:24 PM »
I had forgotten to ask you about it/suggest you make time to go up there.  I spent some time out there last fall surveying the site for an environmental report I did on the course, and I really thought everything about the place was pretty cool.  The routing is about as good as it could be because of the way it lines up different long views and traverses through the small property.  Generally, most environmental reports encourage additional tree planting and re-naturalization, but I advocated limiting new tree planting to small clusters around existing healthy trees so as to maintain the views down along that small valley and up over the horizon beyond the first.  Golfers are also a part of the environment, and the visual landscape quality of a golf course can be just as critical to its environmental value.

Did you happen to meet the greenkeeper there?  He's quite a character, and he has the most minimal standard of maintenance imaginable.  Seriously.  The guy pitchforked all his greens by himself for aeration, and he uses molehill soil for his greens topdressing.  With all that, the course looked pretty darn good last fall before winter shutdown, especially for receiving only 25 man hours of maintenance per week.
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 07:09:00 PM »
This was a section of my environmental report analyzing the course's landscape value, for what it is worth:

Landscape: Survey, Evaluation, and Management Aim
   
-Survey-
The landscape at Kingarrock is quite pastoral in that it has many open spaces and views among its mature trees.  There is a collection of views that vary in nature and provide different spatial and emotional qualities.  The view up the first is up along toward a distant pasture, gently curving around a stand of mature trees and encouraging the eye to follow along up the hill toward a distant horizon among the trees.  There is the shorter view up the second toward the woodland, and if one looks east from there they get the longest view on the property and through to the continuing valley.  Upon reaching the second green, one gets their first view of the Hill of Tarvit with its odd monument on top. 
The third hole brings about an open horizon view as you clear the crest, and then from the green and the fourth tee one can look over the stone wall and see rolling farm hills and the nearby village of Craigrothie—an iconic type of view commonly found throughout Fife.  The fifth sweeps down through trees into a meadow where once again the eye leads the body forward.  This is also the first and only time one gets that sense of being in a woodland, and how appropriate for that change of scenery to come at the exact middle of the round.  The sixth plays down a valley and right towards the mansion, which looms pleasantly over the course.  The seventh is short amidst some single trees and encounters the condie; there is strange feeling of isolation here despite being very much in the middle of the course.  The eighth moves along a slope and wraps around the pine woodland up the hill before setting up what is a great final view from the ninth tee box.  The ninth plays down a hill through two large trees, and the view from the tee is the best on the golf course.  The peak of the HillTarvit looms left with the mansion beyond the green, and nearly the whole course is visible.  It feels like an amphitheater with the Hill and estate house sitting back and watching the stage that is the Kingarrock Course.

-Evaluation-
The routing of the holes on this small course could actually not be much better.  The way in which the golfer is directed about such a seemingly simple property is very impressive for the variety and timing of the views that are experienced throughout the site.  A good golf course is an emotional journey as well as a ground for play, and Kingarrock has exceeded in providing that.
The solitary mature trees actually provide a nice overall aesthetic, and great care must be taken to preserve long views on site if clustering is to occur with any of them.  The newly planted trees could be problematic from a landscape perspective, and a lot of them should either be moved or transplanted off site.  This will be noted and designated in the plan. 

I can give a link to anyone interested in pictures and diagrams (warning: it is just the rest of my report ;))             
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 07:36:33 PM »
This is somewhere my wife is very keen to take the boys to play sometime when we're up in Fife.  Sounds like we should do it this year.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 02:49:39 AM »
This was fantastic fun...

We played the nine holes and then a couple of extra made up ones (9th tee to 7 green was pretty good)... You could spend a full summers day just playing nine holes in an hour, sitting in front of the old estate house drinking ginger beer and eating shortbread... then heading out for another nine... repeat...

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 03:33:30 AM »
Peter McEvoy did the work. I visited during the build, during the week of the 2007 Open if I remember correctly, and wrote it up in the magazine. Here's a link to my piece http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Root/Homeactualpage/Articlesactualpage/Article/tabid/70/ItemId/1253/Default.aspx.

David Anderson is one of golf's great enthusiasts. Those who visited last week: did you get to see the house, and especially the collection of seventeenth century Dutch 'kolf' paintings?

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 06:00:53 AM »
Adam,
sadly in these days of public sector budget cuts (unfortunately, I have first-hand knowledge!!!) the National Trust for Scotland, who operate Hill of Tarvit, are only opening the house on a limited basis until further notice.

The golf operation is separate and unaffected, I hear.

cheers,
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 07:01:26 AM »
They did have the house open for us to look around. 

I wondered how they could have so many staff for it ... easier if it's only for special occasions.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 07:38:25 AM »
They did have the house open for us to look around. 

I wondered how they could have so many staff for it ... easier if it's only for special occasions.

Do you mean they put on extra security in case some of you GCA types got out of hand ?

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 07:50:59 AM »
It is a great outing.    Did you have to wear period costume?

My one concern was the cost - it was more than a round at the Old Course when I checked last August.  feee, club rental, outfit.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 08:03:27 AM »
It is a great outing.    Did you have to wear period costume?

My one concern was the cost - it was more than a round at the Old Course when I checked last August.  feee, club rental, outfit.

I'd hate Gary to be giving everyone a bum steer... From the website:



"The current all-in price for play on the nine hole course is £20 and includes the following:


5 original hickory clubs, 3 new golf balls, 'reddy' tees and an old canvas and leather bag.

A nip of whisky or port to help get into the spirit of the 'roaring twenties' prior to teeing off.

'Da Anderson' ginger beer and shortbread on completion of the round.

If time allows on the same day, a second round can be played for £10."

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 08:52:34 AM »
Thanks, Ally.  The idea of a family outing was beginning to sound rather dubious but your figures tie in with the price Lorna is expecting to pay.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 09:05:54 AM »
The ginger beer is not to be missed by the way!

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 10:13:09 AM »
Super news on the rates!!!   sorry if I gave a bum steer, we had last year's info in our shop and it must have been aimed at a different market.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »
A question - everyone on this thread (and others I've read about hickory golf) agrees that it's a lot of fun, a fun way to play the game; my question is, is it also a harder/more difficult way to play the game (however you want to define hard/difficult)?

I image Kingarrock doesn't have many cross-bunkers or a ton of rough, and I'm guessing that it allows for the ground game and for run-up shots onto every green. But even given that and the much shorter length holes involved, is the hickory game -- getting the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible -- more challenging for you than playing a regulation course with modern clubs?

If so, would you have it any other way? (i.e. do you think hickory courses should ideally be even shorter)? And if so, does it raise a question about the notion that we shouldn't be building golf courses that are too hard for the average golfer?

Thanks
Peter


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2010, 12:53:33 PM »
Peter:

Most of the group seemed to think it was a lot tougher to play with those clubs, even at the shorter distance.  Some expressed shock that Eric Iverson and I posted a nine-hole round of 40 for alternate-shot play.

I think it was mostly about expectations.  The better golfers in the group were probably a bit afraid of embarrassing themselves with unfamiliar equipment, or even concerned they might break a club with their powerful swings, so they went at it very tentatively.  I had the advantage of being around it just enough (3 or 4 previous tries with hickories) that I wasn't afraid to make a full swing, and I was already quite familiar with the smaller clubheads of the period.

I did find it tougher to score around the greens, because conditions were quite slow ... it's pretty early in the year to be playing there at all.

Kari Haug

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kingarrock, Hill of Tarvit, Fife, Scotland
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2010, 02:05:21 PM »
Playing at Hill of Tarvit was great fun and an experience in my opinion that should not be missed by any golf course architect (and I would invite equipment R&D to check it out as well!) 

I have a theory about why it was so much fun:  The fun in golf is not relative to the distance one is able to get out of the equipment, but rather shot-making ability relative to the course on which one is playing.   

One issue addressed at the conference was driving distance and course lengthening.  One of the speakers at the conference spoke about a study that looked at a reduced flight golf ball used from 6,500+ yard course, a 6,000+ yard course, and a 5,500+ yard course.  Don’t quote my numbers because I have a horrible memory.  But what I remember is that enjoyment was reported to be reduced (with the reduced flight distance ball) until course length was decreased to around 5,500 yards at which length golfers found no reduction in enjoyment level due to reduced flight distance of the ball. 

It appears as if this suggests that enjoyment is not relative to how far one can hit the ball, but rather how well one is able to compete against the course.  And possibly this is why so many people had such a wonderful time at Hill of Tarvit – the equipment was appropriate for the course.   Just to emphasize, I think it would have been a bummer to play a 2,200 yard course with new equipment.

Does anyone remember who presented the study I mentioned above?