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Joel Zuckerman

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NW England golf advice
« on: March 30, 2010, 11:41:53 AM »
For you Mad Dogs, Englishmen and World Travelers:

How does this itinerary stack up for a visit to greater Southport?  Yes--I realize there's no Royal Liverpool on the docket, but it's a question of timing.  Are all/most of these venues well worthwhile?

Thanks for the expertise--much appreciated!


West Lancashire GC

Hillside GC

Royal Birkdale GC

Formby GC

Wallasey GC

Royal Lytham GC

Southport & Ainsdale GC

Scott Warren

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 12:09:04 PM »
You wouldn't dedicate a day to duck inland and see Alwoodley and something else in Leeds (Moortown?)?

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 12:30:11 PM »
Scott,

Thanks for chiming in..much appreciated.

Let me be more specific.  As opposed to anyone suggesting GC alternatives, I would instead appreciate candid commentary on what's on the docket already.  The reason is that this is an itinerary that has been suggested/planned by a knowledgeable tour operator in the Southport area, and I don't want to make his jump through hoops by adding/deleting/substituting courses after he has already done plenty of work on my behalf.

Thanks again---

Mark Pearce

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 12:37:18 PM »
"Greater Southport"?  Possibly the first known use of the word great and the name Southport in the same sentence!
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 12:38:31 PM »
I can't see there's anything on that list that really needs much advice is there? I mean, you've got two Open courses, one that's hosted a Ryder Cup, another that has had three Amateurs... it's hardly an agenda filled with obscurity.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

David_Tepper

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 12:58:29 PM »
Joel -

I have played Birkdale, Hillside & Lytham and recommend them all heartily. I also played Hesketh, which is on the north side of Southport. It is a lesser, but still worthwhile, course.

I believe the 90-mile stretch between Hoylake & Lytham contains the greatest stretch of links golf in GB&I, in terms of both quality and quantity. East Lothian is a strong runner-up.

DT
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 01:01:14 PM by David_Tepper »

Bill_McBride

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 01:49:28 PM »
I have only played Hoylake and Wallasey but loved both. Too bad Hoylake doesn't work, it's memorable. The Bobby Jones original oil paintings in both clubhouses are worth the trip. Jones won the 1930 Open at Hoylake, Wallasey was the second qualifying course - and was where Dr Frank Stableford invented his scoring system!

Niall C

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 02:17:51 PM »
I can't see there's anything on that list that really needs much advice is there? I mean, you've got two Open courses, one that's hosted a Ryder Cup, another that has had three Amateurs... it's hardly an agenda filled with obscurity.

You cynical hack you ! Give the man a break, and a few suggestions from the huge list of courses that you've played in the line of duty.

I'll through in my usual which is you are doing the proper NW England then Silloth is a must as anything else on your list is merely down south in comparison. And if you are up Silloth way Seascale and Carlisle are two courses that are well worth a hit.

Niall

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 02:28:35 PM »
That is a pretty impressive list even if Hoylake isn't there.

West Lancs is quite austere. It's at the southern end of that stretch of dunes ending in Southport. It's a good course, though, and the challenge is considerable. It's not visually memorable, but I am sure you'll enjoy it.

Hillside doesn't get a great reaction on this site, but I love it. The flatter holes on the front nine are similar to those of S & A separeted from it only by a railway line. The (newer) back nine explores mountainous dunes overlooking Royal Birkdale. I find these holes very enjoyable. Others complain about a lack of width.

Royal Birkdale also comes in for criticism on GCA, largely because of the way its fairways are routed along the valleys through the dunes, creating lovely flat lies, far removed from the traditional links. OK, it's not Royal County Down or Sandwich in that respect, but you still have to hit the fairways and there are some pretty effective defences if you don't get it right. There are many very good holes, perhaps no great ones, but it's a good test of golf and the greens are deceptively tricky to putt. The clubhouse is very comfortable - not at all intimidating as some Open Championship clubhouses are.

I love Formby. It's such an interesting course and I adore the new holes through the pine forest. Look out for red squirrels, an endangered species in the UK. Have a look at Sean Arble's recent posting on the course.

Wallasey has some impressive dunes and it exploits them well. There are some great green sites and many an inspiring view from the tee. There are also some flat holes, which some like less. To my taste these are also good holes - I also like the flat holes at Aberdovey and Harlech.

Royal Lytham - flat as a pancake, surrounded by housing and a railway line, with no sight of the sea. But what a difficult course! Does it have more bunkers than any other Open venue? After the first tee shot you are rivetted - you never notice the housing or railway - and you find that, like Hoyake, there are more undulations than you imagine, viewing the course for the first time.

Southport and Ainsdale is to my mind the least attractive of the courses, but it is an ex-Ryder Cup venue (a rare GB and I win). It's quirky and there are some fairly ordinary holes at the far end of the course, but it's no slouch.

I think this has the potential to be a pretty exhaustive test of golfing ability with the added benefit of minimal travelling once you get there. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.  

Adam Lawrence

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 03:33:40 PM »
I can't see there's anything on that list that really needs much advice is there? I mean, you've got two Open courses, one that's hosted a Ryder Cup, another that has had three Amateurs... it's hardly an agenda filled with obscurity.

You cynical hack you ! Give the man a break, and a few suggestions from the huge list of courses that you've played in the line of duty.

I'll through in my usual which is you are doing the proper NW England then Silloth is a must as anything else on your list is merely down south in comparison. And if you are up Silloth way Seascale and Carlisle are two courses that are well worth a hit.

Niall

Niall - I didn't mean to be arsey, only to say that most of the courses on that list are no-brainers. Besides, I am a Yorkshireman and thus unqualified to speak on Lancashire; fortunately Mark R has chimed in.

Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 03:39:41 PM »
Silloth-on-Solway and Hesketh were two other courses that I enjoyed on my trips to the region. Alwoodley and Moortown are also about an hour away.
You are also pretty close to the northern courses in Wales.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 04:18:51 PM »
Southport to Silloth sounds like a fair drive.  Multimap says 3 hours.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 03:30:27 AM »
That is a pretty impressive list even if Hoylake isn't there.

West Lancs is quite austere. It's at the southern end of that stretch of dunes ending in Southport. It's a good course, though, and the challenge is considerable. It's not visually memorable, but I am sure you'll enjoy it.

Hillside doesn't get a great reaction on this site, but I love it. The flatter holes on the front nine are similar to those of S & A separeted from it only by a railway line. The (newer) back nine explores mountainous dunes overlooking Royal Birkdale. I find these holes very enjoyable. Others complain about a lack of width.

Royal Birkdale also comes in for criticism on GCA, largely because of the way its fairways are routed along the valleys through the dunes, creating lovely flat lies, far removed from the traditional links. OK, it's not Royal County Down or Sandwich in that respect, but you still have to hit the fairways and there are some pretty effective defences if you don't get it right. There are many very good holes, perhaps no great ones, but it's a good test of golf and the greens are deceptively tricky to putt. The clubhouse is very comfortable - not at all intimidating as some Open Championship clubhouses are.

I love Formby. It's such an interesting course and I adore the new holes through the pine forest. Look out for red squirrels, an endangered species in the UK. Have a look at Sean Arble's recent posting on the course.

Wallasey has some impressive dunes and it exploits them well. There are some great green sites and many an inspiring view from the tee. There are also some flat holes, which some like less. To my taste these are also good holes - I also like the flat holes at Aberdovey and Harlech.

Royal Lytham - flat as a pancake, surrounded by housing and a railway line, with no sight of the sea. But what a difficult course! Does it have more bunkers than any other Open venue? After the first tee shot you are rivetted - you never notice the housing or railway - and you find that, like Hoyake, there are more undulations than you imagine, viewing the course for the first time.

Southport and Ainsdale is to my mind the least attractive of the courses, but it is an ex-Ryder Cup venue (a rare GB and I win). It's quirky and there are some fairly ordinary holes at the far end of the course, but it's no slouch.

I think this has the potential to be a pretty exhaustive test of golfing ability with the added benefit of minimal travelling once you get there. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.  

Joel
I think Mark's summary above is excellent, shame you can't fit Hoylake into your itinerary.

Adam
Good to hear there's another Yorkshireman on this forum. Whereabouts in God's own county do you hail from?
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 05:03:00 AM »
Joel - Southport is a great choice, it's pointless to go there and then be given other options, it's like asking for advice on a week at St Andrews and being told you shouldn't miss North Berwick and Cruden Bay. As an aside Alwoodley is great but I couldn't have been more underwhelmed with Hoylake.

West Lancs - tough breezy very good test of golf, no views but a definate on a trip to the area.

Formby - Very enjoyable course, not a pure links but very good turf and some superb holes. Very comfortable clubhouse.

Hillside - Front 9 was pretty interesting but flat. Fine par 3 around the 7th, I geared up for the back 9 and found it to be motorways through the dunes. No real interaction with the land. very disappointing IMO.

Royal Birkdale - Big championship course, again more through the land than part of it. Very expensive of you pay full green fee but an experience not to be missed.

Royal Lytham - Another great championship links full of history, works nicely around a flat site. A said before zero views!
Cave Nil Vino

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 08:22:30 AM »
Thanks, everybody, for chiming in with your opinions...much appreciated!

Josh Stevens

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Re: NW England golf advice
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2010, 09:30:35 AM »
Weather permitting (it is snowing as we speak) I will play silloth on Solway next week.  Let you know