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Chris Buie

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G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« on: March 31, 2010, 08:56:11 AM »
A very well done look at what Mackenzie and Jones had in mind.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/2010-04/golf-shackelford-old-course-0405

There is another recent article in the local paper about Strantz.  It's a bit thin but Strantz enthusiasts would probably enjoy it.

http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/mar/21/mike-strantz-remembered-visiions/
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Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 04:32:45 PM »
What a great story!

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It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Bill_McBride

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 04:33:55 PM »
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Terry Lavin

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 05:48:57 PM »
This is yet another well-researched and well written article about golf course architecture by perhaps the leading voice of the day.  It makes me pine for the old Augusta, but just for everyday play.  I shudder to think what the scores would be like if they played the Augusta with "soul" that Geoff profiles.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Will MacEwen

Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 05:57:07 PM »
Terry - a birdie binge might be kind of fun.  I would take it over what we have seen in some of the soggier years.
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Adam Clayman

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 09:22:11 PM »
Quote from: Terry Lavin on March 31, 2010, 05:48:57 PM
  I shudder to think what the scores would be like if they played the Augusta with "soul" that Geoff profiles.

Why?

The scores are immaterial compared the golf exhibited. Both the agony and the ecstasy would be spellbinding. I'm confident the theatre provided watching these go low on that course would be unforgettable. It's also a huge assumption that they would go that low. It would be so exciting to see anyone, handle the pressure that comes with "the round of their life". Especially on a Sunday in April at Augusta.

Remember all the Tiger proofing? All it ended up proving was that Tiger would win more. Shortening the course is the only real equalizer to combat the waylayer while identifying the best all around golfer.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

TEPaul

Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 10:07:53 PM »
Geoff Shackelford has the finest mind for uniquely explaning golf course architecture (and golf) past, present, and perhaps future, of anyone I'm aware of and by a factor I've not yet been able to comfortably calculate to my satisfaction.
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Chip Gaskins

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 11:00:30 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on March 31, 2010, 10:07:53 PM
Geoff Shackelford has the finest mind for uniquely explaning golf course architecture (and golf) past, present, and perhaps future, of anyone I'm aware of and by a factor I've not yet been able to comfortably calculate to my satisfaction.

wow, was that a Philly guy saying something nice about a West coast guy!
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Peter Pallotta

Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 12:01:30 AM »
My compliments to Geoff too. I think it's sometimes much harder to write a 2 page essay than it is a 10 pager; and often much harder to write a popular/generalist essay when you're an expert on the subject (Geoff) than when you're a hack (most others). Really well done!
Peter
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TEPaul

Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 12:12:55 AM »
"wow, was that a Philly guy saying something nice about a West coast guy!"


Yep, Chip, that's the way it is. Shackelford won't even speak with me anymore for reasons I might understand, but on the other hand, I may not. It doesn't really matter to me----when you see real talent, I say, just tell it like it is not matter what.

Do I think some of those West Coast architectural guys are weirdos? Definitely, I sure do----but if someone asked us to get into a free-flow "weirdo-out" competition, could some of us East Coast guys "Weirdo" out that West Coast contingent? You bet your Bippee we could----those West Coast cats wouldn't have a chance!

And you want to talk tradition!?!? Those West Coast chaps have at least three generations to go before they will even see our tail-lights on tradition.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 12:14:42 AM by TEPaul »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 07:05:00 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on March 31, 2010, 09:22:11 PM
Remember all the Tiger proofing? All it ended up proving was that Tiger would win more. Shortening the course is the only real equalizer to combat the waylayer while identifying the best all around golfer.

It was never about preventing Tiger (or the best player of the next generation) from winning.  It was entirely about keeping him from shooting 20-under, even in soft conditions.  I'm not sure why that's so damned important, but that was clearly the goal.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 08:11:08 AM »
That's  very cool comparison of #4 Augusta and #11 Old Course.  The Augusta hole might be the best "Eden" I've seen, although just from that angle as I've never been to Augusta National.   :'(

Thoughts?
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Chris Buie

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 09:03:58 AM »
Mickelson hit a sand wedge into 11 one year.  Hootie happened to be standing there and I do remember reading that he said "we can't have these guys hitting a sand wedge into 11!".  I think that one probably was the straw that broke the camel's back for the fellows in the green jackets.  That is the sort of thing that set them off on their recent modification of the Mackenzie/Jones course.
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jeffwarne

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Re: G. Shackelford on the original design of Augusta
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 09:26:38 AM »
Quote from: Chris Buie on April 01, 2010, 09:03:58 AM
Mickelson hit a sand wedge into 11 one year.  Hootie happened to be standing there and I do remember reading that he said "we can't have these guys hitting a sand wedge into 11!".  I think that one probably was the straw that broke the camel's back for the fellows in the green jackets.  That is the sort of thing that set them off on their recent modification of the Mackenzie/Jones course.

Watson and Crenshaw lament the lack of runups at Augusta.
Not too many players are going to play a runup if they've got a sand wedge in.
They cite the (originally) 440 yard  5th as an example.
Shouldn't that hole be about 500 + yards now if it's going to require a long iron runup?
Also, the article cites the original 5th hole dogleg defined by Pine trees (God help Hootie on this site if he planted more pine trees to define that or any other dogleg)


If 50% of the field were driiving #11, would that be reason to lenghthen the hole?
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey
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