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Jon Wiggett

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High point-low point on greens
« on: March 25, 2010, 06:45:45 PM »
What is the biggest difference between the high and low points on a green? I have just finished the basic modelling of a green where the difference will be around 15'.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 06:52:04 PM »
Jon:

I am not around it today but if you can find a copy of Dr. MacKenzie's award-winning Lido finishing hole, if you look closely, there are three spot elevations for the green.  I think it was supposed to have 12 or 15 feet of elevation change.

The most I've ever seen on a widely-regarded course is 7 or 8 feet.

The most I can think of on any course was the ridiculous 5-tiered green on the 14th hole at Carmel Valley Ranch, California.  Mr. Dye and his client differed on the best location for the green, and Pete eventually settled things by building one wide green from one side stepping down to the other.  I would guess that one was close to 15 feet, but I don't know the exact number.  Whatever it was, it was stupid.
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Carl Rogers

Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 07:17:34 PM »
Royal New Kent has several greens that are in the 7' to 8' elevation difference.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 07:26:52 PM »
Carl:

I thought of Royal New Kent, too.  And all of those greens are crap.
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J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 07:29:31 PM »
I remember once at Rustic Canyon I had a blind putt.
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Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 07:33:43 PM »
Justin,

Was the flag being tended?
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 07:37:59 PM »
What would Pasatiempo's 16th be ?
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jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 07:47:25 PM »
Wow.  I've been thinking a lot about the courses I've played and I don't think I can recall a 15' change in elevation on a green.

I played Pete Dye #17 this past summer and it has a lot of elevation change, but that's probably 7 or 8 feet tops.

I remember True Blue and Tobacco Road have some big movement, but 15' I doubt exists there as well.
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jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 07:50:32 PM »
I looked on Google Maps and Pete Dye #17 is 8 feet.  I can't imagine 15'.

Jon,

Why 15 feet?

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Derek Dirksen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 08:55:23 PM »
15 feet is a lot of elevation change.  What's the square footage of the green?  I hope its a big one!
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Mike Hamilton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 09:41:57 PM »
Quote from: Carl Rogers on March 25, 2010, 07:17:34 PM
Royal New Kent has several greens that are in the 7' to 8' elevation difference.

I think the 6th green at RNK maybe approaches 15 feet from the very front to the very back.  Last time I was there I took these photos which give a little indication although the green is far more severe than it looks.  From off the green you can see the ridge in the center.


And my buddy left his approach about 100 feet short and probably 8-9 feet under the hole.  From the front edge to back edge maybe add another couple of feet so I'm guessing 12 feet.  Amazingly enough he lagged his putt to within a foot!



No pics but the #10 green at RNK is similar

Quote from: Tom_Doak on March 25, 2010, 07:26:52 PM
Carl:

I thought of Royal New Kent, too.  And all of those greens are crap.

Tom...is there anything about RNK you like?  I think I recall an older post where you said something like the first hole made you want to throw up.

RNK is definitely far from perfect, it's almost unwalkable, I agree these two greens in particular are way overly tiered, the last 4 holes are a letdown, I hate 18...but I still love having it an hour away to play 2-3 times a year.



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Rory Connaughton

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Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 10:16:24 PM »
What is the difference back to front on PV No. 2?
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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2010, 06:12:15 AM »
Wow, so many replies :)

Jonathan,

the course is a 9 hole one but will have two flag positions as well as two seperate tees. Due to this I want each hole to have a significant difference in how it plays first and second time. This paticular green is set in a sideslope which will allow the golfer to play the shot out to the right and allow the slope to bring the ball into the green. I will be using a reverse false front on this green so the pace of the ball rolling down the slope will be easier to judge rather than a transition from fairway to green. There is a slight ledge at the topside of the green but I am not convinced it will provide a playable pin position.

Derek,

don't know in square feet but the green will be approx. 1000m2 so pretty big.
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Derek Dirksen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 06:40:50 AM »
Jon,

Do you have a photo of the new green?
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Derek Dirksen

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Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 06:46:00 AM »
1000m2 would be around 10,700 square feet.  Good sized green
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jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 06:55:06 AM »
Thanks for the description Jon.

I'm with Derek.  Is there something you can post for us?
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J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 07:05:54 AM »
Yeah, but that barely helped.  I still was basically putting in a general direction.  Forgot what hole it was.
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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 07:26:23 AM »
Derek, Jonathan,

I will post a photo as soon as the weather allows me to take a decent one. I will be posting a thread on the entire project in the next few weeks.
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Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 07:33:40 AM »
What about TD's "Double Biarritz" at Old Mac? That must be a massive difference from front to back, no?
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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 10:50:38 AM »
The 14th on Jim Engh's Fossil Trace in Golden, CO has about a 10-12' rise from the front tier to the back tier.  Seems like it's about 30' high when you're trying to putt up it.
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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Brian Noser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 11:18:19 AM »
The 18th at Dalhousie in MO here,  has to be close to 15' of change. It is somthing like 90 yards long as well
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 05:56:30 PM »
2 metres is my record, so thats about 6 foot 6.
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 06:09:03 PM »
There is a five tiered par 3 green at Chardonnay near the Napa Valley which may have a 15' dropping from left, to right.
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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 07:41:09 PM »
That subject reminds me of another classic line of Rod Whitman

After shooting grades on the newly shape 16th green at Sagebrush, where Whit thought he had it good, I came to Whit and said:

Well Whit, there 8 feet of fall on that green...

He went: Whattt !!!  8 feet of fall..some mumbling and then  " THAT F***ING MOUNTAIN THING 'S DRIVING ME CRAZY , 8 feet of fall... " and than some more mumbling
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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: High point-low point on greens
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 07:53:57 PM »
Well, here's 13 feet at Paa-Ko Ridge. FWIW, although this green is 100 yards deep, I think it works quite well.

http://paakoridge.com/tour1.htm#4
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