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Dave McCollum

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Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« on: March 23, 2010, 12:42:16 PM »
This article by Dave Zinkand is about a day’s work on a new Coore & Crenshaw course in Hainan Island, China.  An interesting and detailed take on life in the field. 

http://out-and-back.net/?p=1840



PCCraig

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Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 04:25:28 PM »
Wow...fantasic article.

That short par-4 next to the beach is shaping up to be an all-world hole....
H.P.S.

Jim Sweeney

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Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 09:01:55 PM »
Excellent account!
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

B. Mogg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 10:50:49 PM »
Beautiful. Though with 8 expats on site not your typical China project (or site!).

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 01:51:25 AM »
What a wonderful bedtime read.  Mr Zinkland has done a great job of chronicaling his adventures.  I wasn't aware of this site and article, but am sure glad it was posted for us to enjoy. 

It strikes me that the total atmosphere that "the boys" are experiencing over there is something akin to the wild and intrepid days to the early GCA pioneers, in their globe trotting.  Like "the Good Dr." and his trip down under, and all the other far afield adventures of those that brought golf to the remote areas of the world.  Here we are 100+ years later and one can still pick up on the feel and explorer adventure of these hard workers as they experience new cultures and bring the foreign environs an old ancient Scottish game.

It also strikes me that being so far from home, and no electronic television distractions, yet probably some internet connection to blog and write, that these ex-pats have more time to reflect and soak up their seldom in a lifetime opportunities to learn and teach.  It is clear that they are great ambassadors of our very best working class, and how can that not promote cultural understandings and peaceful relations in the world, despite the more powerful legislative, political, and economic players often sending the wrong signals to people around the world - which goes both ways. 

Of course the ultimate irony is probably that we have these hard working American representatives of our culture making important inroads of understanding and good human relationships with these common towns people, and yet, the product will probably never be readily available for the common folk of those local towns to enjoy.  Or, might I be wrong on that?  If BRet Mogg or Mr Zinkland or someone else could straighten me up on that, I'd like to  hear their ideas about whether golf will be a recreation for the people in general over there, anytime soon.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 07:38:07 AM »
RJ:

Which people are you talking about, exactly?

There are a huge number of people in China who can't afford to play golf on a top course [or even any course] right now.  They still have hundreds of millions of people below the poverty line.  That's not a political issue, it's an economic one.

By the same token, there are plenty of Americans who will never play Country Club of Detroit, or Bandon Dunes.  And I've even heard a lot of Scots say this week that they wouldn't pay to play Castle Stuart, though they could if they wanted to.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 06:55:15 PM »
Kelly:

Well, I suppose the politicians could float the exchange rate for the yuan as we keep insisting, and then technically there would be fewer people below the poverty line.  But there are still hundreds of millions of people working on the farm or in low-wage jobs in the cities for next to nothing.  Having a democratic election would not change that, would it?

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 07:34:14 PM »
And who would they elect? It's not as if there's a tradition of democracy in China and a good supply of humanist thinkers, well qualified to lead the country in a democratic way. Chances are, whoever is in power now, would be in power after elections.

Things would of course improve, over time, but a very long time that would be.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 07:35:54 PM »
To put things in a proper context, RJ was extolling the adventures of 100 years ago.  Think back to what the socio-economic environment in the US was in1910.  Then think forward to where China might be in 2110.
Coasting is a downhill process

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 08:12:08 PM »
Kelly:

Actually, I thought Mexico was a democracy.  And it's not helping them much right now.

You are certainly correct that a political regime (or the lack of one also) can get in the way of prosperity.  But, it's also fair to observe that few countries on earth started with the wealth of natural resources and geographic protection that America enjoyed at its beginning, while during our best years, many countries were destroyed by world wars and hostile takeovers.  I'm not that well versed on Chinese history, but after a long isolationist period, they were pretty much subject to foreign rule from 1850-1950 ... in fact it was one of the places the empires exploited, when they could no longer exploit America.

You are also right that poverty is far more complicated than most anyone can sort out.  Have you ever read the Jared Diamond book, Guns, Germs, and Steel?  It's the best examination I've seen of why some civilizations have thrived over others.

Sorry for the thread-jack, though.  David Zinkand's long post was exceptional [another Cornell guy] and the photos of the course were more dramatic than I'd expected.  It will be interesting to speak to him more about his experience overseas once he returns.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 08:19:54 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tom Dunne

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Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 08:57:55 PM »
Tom, Kelly: I think your discussion is quite germane. Chinese politics and society are about as fascinating a subject as you can find. (At least I think so.) I spent three weeks traveling the country with my wife during the Beijing Games (without golf clubs) and was just blown away. The extremes of both wealth and poverty on full, street-level display are absolutely stunning and unlike anything you might see in this country.

China is essentially demonstrating what predatory statist capitalism absent democracy looks like, and that is a radical experiment in its own right. What I find incredibly ironic is that the Chinese are some of the most naturally entrepreneurial people I've ever seen. Zinkand's anecdote about the opportunistic convenience store that popped up to sell beer to the Shanqin Bay work crews...that's just so Chinese. Informal economies, haggling (not to mention bad driving taken to its logical extreme), all of that stuff seems really bizarre to a foreigner. That was what made Dave's ground-level perspective of that part of the world really resonate with me based on my own few weeks of travel over there. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 10:28:43 PM »
Tom:

I have been to China four times now, so I could relate, too.  The driving in Haikou (the biggest city in Hainan) was just eye-popping ... people going down the wrong side of a six-lane divided road so they could turn left into a driveway, which the divider would have prevented.  After a while, I realized it had a lot to do with the fact that nearly everyone on the road is a new driver.  Imagine if everyone on the roads was 17, and you'd be close to the picture.


Derek Dirksen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gone Afar: A Beautiful Day Building Shanqin Bay
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 10:50:33 PM »
Sounds like the driving is just a little bit worse in China than here in Korea.  I didn't know that was possible.

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