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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 03:12:43 AM »
Health care schmealth care.  Costs in golf have been on the rise forever.  This bill doesn't alter that.  As Chris points out, it is still the owners/members job to make it work.  While not in the US - though the UK has arguably seen a bigger hit on prices than any other Euro or N American country, Pennard is for the third straight year HOLDING its dues while I would guess dues around the country have gone up on average of 8-10%.  Its this type of attitude from those in charge that we need.  Sure stuff has to give, but the over-all picture is the main thing.

BTW - Health care has been a long time coming.  I welcome USA to the real greater world of increased quality of life for ALL (well most of all - folks are still dropping the ball over there) its citizens.

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 08:40:13 AM »
Health care schmealth care.  Costs in golf have been on the rise forever.  This bill doesn't alter that.  As Chris points out, it is still the owners/members job to make it work.  While not in the US - though the UK has arguably seen a bigger hit on prices than any other Euro or N American country, Pennard is for the third straight year HOLDING its dues while I would guess dues around the country have gone up on average of 8-10%.  Its this type of attitude from those in charge that we need.  Sure stuff has to give, but the over-all picture is the main thing.

BTW - Health care has been a long time coming.  I welcome USA to the real greater world of increased quality of life for ALL (well most of all - folks are still dropping the ball over there) its citizens.

Ciao   

Sean,

I couldn't agree more.  In the US we pay 3x more per capita for health care than the next closest country.  And to boot 15-20% of those people don't even have access to healthcare....its an absolutly crazy system that needed overhauling years ago, but at least hopefully this is a step in the right direction.

Additionally there is study after study after study that shows heathcare costs are by far and away the number 1 cause of bankrupticies in America.....even among those who have insurance.  At least 95% of the American population sits on a ticking time bomb where they or one of thier family members is one big illness/disease away from thier entire family being sent to the poor house...and we think this is a good system??

Its beyond Nucking Futs!!!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 11:21:10 AM »
Sure it's great to provide health care to everyone.  A noble cause.  And hopefully this is a step in the right direction.  However,  this will only increase the deficit (Bill Gross estimates slightly over 1/2 TRILLION), plus they are raising taxes yet again in the midst of a recession.  Clearly what they should have done, and still should do eventually, is adopt medicare for everyone and allow for supplementary private options for those who are willing to pay for high end care...All I know is our debt's on the verge of being downgraded and they just added 32mm people to the insurance rolls and through some of the silliest accounting this side of Madoff this is going to somehow reduce the deficit....I have a simple solution to the health care problem,  charge by the pound for insurance, plane tickets, bus fare, etc.....did anyone see that borderline obese kid shaking Obama's hand after he signed the bill? THAT'S the problem with health care......
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 11:26:27 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 12:57:22 PM »
Health care schmealth care.  Costs in golf have been on the rise forever.  This bill doesn't alter that.  As Chris points out, it is still the owners/members job to make it work.  While not in the US - though the UK has arguably seen a bigger hit on prices than any other Euro or N American country, Pennard is for the third straight year HOLDING its dues while I would guess dues around the country have gone up on average of 8-10%.  Its this type of attitude from those in charge that we need.  Sure stuff has to give, but the over-all picture is the main thing.

BTW - Health care has been a long time coming.  I welcome USA to the real greater world of increased quality of life for ALL (well most of all - folks are still dropping the ball over there) its citizens.

Ciao   

Sean,

I couldn't agree more.  In the US we pay 3x more per capita for health care than the next closest country. 

Kalen:
I don't think that's an accurate statement, but in any event, if you think this health care bill is going to do anything to reduce those costs, I'd like to know what health-care plan covers the medical marijuana you've been smoking.

Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 01:22:49 PM »

Bill McBride,

We provide extended health care benefits for ourselves and our employees as do the vast majority of employers north of the border. That provides further coverage over and above the basic government health care package.

Waiting times used to be longer but are really not bad at all these days and are generally limited to elective surgery. I had some minor surgery in early January (hernia) which was not urgently required at all and it was all done in less than a month.

It has been interesting to see the debates in the US from this side of the line. Most Canadians seem to wonder "what's all the fuss about?".

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2010, 01:30:56 PM »

Bill McBride,

We provide extended health care benefits for ourselves and our employees as do the vast majority of employers north of the border. That provides further coverage over and above the basic government health care package.

Waiting times used to be longer but are really not bad at all these days and are generally limited to elective surgery. I had some minor surgery in early January (hernia) which was not urgently required at all and it was all done in less than a month.

It has been interesting to see the debates in the US from this side of the line. Most Canadians seem to wonder "what's all the fuss about?".

Thanks, Bob.  I hope that hernia operation worked well for you!

Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2010, 01:58:52 PM »

Bill,

Can't say it improves one's game!

Still hoping you can make it up here one of these days.

Bob

Steve_Roths

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2010, 03:24:58 PM »
Jud,

I agree that this will end up costing us more money.  But......how about shutting NASA down.  How about scrapping some of these wasteful military programs.  Do we really need a replacement for the F-18?  Do we really need that Marine Helicpoter/Jet contraption that doesn't work?

Seriously, we could knock the amount the US owes and pay for National Healthcare if we just stop wasting money.  But, we keep voting these idiots in and not care about the job they do for us.

At some point this will all come to a head, but I don't think we are there yet.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2010, 03:43:33 PM »
Steve,

I certainly agree that there are plently of other areas where the government could tighten their enormous belt considerably, I was simply trying to stay on topic...Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no died in the wool Republican...There are equal parts of both parties that I find particularly distateful.  I just find the fact that they jimmied the numbers for this plan to appear to reduce the deficit as practically criminal....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Carl Rogers

Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2010, 07:10:09 PM »
Tim,

The real question is, how will the health care "reform" help us read greens with micro contours, because I for one am so pissed off I can't see straight......

Jeff B.,

Let me mention a few items in order to frame the Health Care debate and to elicit your (and all of the rest of you) full point of view on the subject.

In the USA, there are a series of laws covering ambulance, emergency and indigent care.  Among them, they are the 1986 EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) and 1985 COBRA, 1986 McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act (continuum of care).  You can look this up on Wikipedia.

Do you support these laws?

Do you support Medicare?

Do you support the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit (by GW Bush)?

My own view on this subject is based on being married to a Family Practice Nurse.  And they are very pragmatic meaning I am not sure what Option B would be.

As disturbed by I am by people foregoing health insurance by spending it stuff they do not need, I am more disturbed by a youngster whose family has no insurance dying in a car accident or a ruptured appendix.  

As messy as our new healthcare will be, getting more people covered and more people paying will be better.

What is monstrous at this point is the legal action by Virginia, Texas and other states, its political stunts and costs.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 03:09:36 PM by Carl Rogers »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2010, 07:26:04 PM »
You go, Carl.

I've been out of the country since the bill passed and haven't had time to read the fine print.  However, I've been paying 100% of the health care insurance for 5-8 employees for ten years now, because we all need it.  And while there are a bunch of employers who have been shirking any responsibility for that who are now complaining over what they might have to pay, I'm guessing that I am more likely to get a tax BREAK than a premium INCREASE as a result of this.

I have also been "for" the concept of health reform because the stupidest part of health care in America is that people are hindered in switching jobs over the subject.  My brother has been stuck in a job he would rather quit for the last several years, because he has health problems, and can't afford to go off his employer-group care and pay his own way.  My step-kids lose their coverage when their dad is laid off or changes jobs, and of course the rules won't allow them to be covered under my $11,000 per year plan.  And it's been hard for me to consider letting people go when it makes sense, because I know if I cut them loose they only have 18 months to find a new job with benefits, or they are screwed.  If the bill just changes that, it will be a huge success, in my view.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2010, 08:03:28 PM »
Tom,

My understanding is that as long as you stay at 10 employees or less you are in the sweet spot of small business tax breaks (35%?)...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2010, 09:36:42 PM »
Just curious about those who are supportive of the bill. Have you actually read it? I mean really read it?

The health care system is broken in the US. No doubt about it. But this bill is NOT the answer. Costs are going up, fellas. Just be prepared for it.

I am in a unique position as I am a US employee benefits broker who mainly works with Canadian owned companies that have US subsidiaries (in fact I am in Toronto as we speak). Therefore I am very familiar with both systems. As for the Canadian system, it really depends where you are and what you need to have done. I deal with Canadian companies all the time who have employees who DO have trouble accessing timely healthcare. I am glad my good friend Bob Jenkins hasn't had many issues, especially because he is kinda old ;) But a lot of people in Canada do have issues.

The biggest problem with the new bill is that it does not address what the biggest problem is, which is the need to lower the demand for healthcare. The good news is that some people who have not been able to get health insurance now will be able to. But that is about all I can say that is good.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2010, 11:47:46 AM »
Those are interesting points Sean and Bob.  I imagine there are people that do have 'timely issues' in every system.  My own anecdotal experience with Canadians is that none are turned away for emergency care, and don't wait for pain and suffering abatement surgeries and procedures.  I imagine a Canadian in rural areas has as much difficulty to access as anyone in remote areas here or anywhere else.  I know people that have been waiting forever with pre-existing conditions that need attention, and have US insurance, just not covered for that particular issue...  ::)  I also know people that were turned out of the hospital too soon by demanding insurance companies that said you don't need to even stay overnight for "day surgeries" like laproscopic gall bladder removal, hernia, etc., where most universal system countries are less harsh with in-hospital stays.  I'd rather have me and my employer, or since I'm not employed, pay 10-12% of my income for a universal system that fairly and adequately covers all our citizens, gets rid of medical bankruptcy, etc.

And as to these small business mandates, such as golf operations having added H.I. costs, that will somehow put them out of business, I would suggest that the playing field is still applied to all and that they will find a way to continue their operations if they want to.  If they use this as an excuse to shutter the door, then I don't think they want to be in that biz anyway.  This is essentially a 58cent  raise in the minimum wage, which is less than the last raise a few years ago, and it is a write-off item.  The economy will adjust as it always does.  Golf will go along as it would have, based on many other factors of market and competition.  I don't think a national H.I. policy applied to all will be the final nail in any GC operation's survival.  Various occasional minium wage bills have drawn the same line that this will put their small biz under.  They are still here, competing for market as always, based on their product and service.  Consumers adjust, and provider/producers do as well...


Just curious about those who are supportive of the bill. Have you actually read it? I mean really read it?

The health care system is broken in the US. No doubt about it. But this bill is NOT the answer. Costs are going up, fellas. Just be prepared for it.

I am in a unique position as I am a US employee benefits broker who mainly works with Canadian owned companies that have US subsidiaries (in fact I am in Toronto as we speak). Therefore I am very familiar with both systems. As for the Canadian system, it really depends where you are and what you need to have done. I deal with Canadian companies all the time who have employees who DO have trouble accessing timely healthcare. I am glad my good friend Bob Jenkins hasn't had many issues, especially because he is kinda old ;) But a lot of people in Canada do have issues.

The biggest problem with the new bill is that it does not address what the biggest problem is, which is the need to lower the demand for healthcare. The good news is that some people who have not been able to get health insurance now will be able to. But that is about all I can say that is good.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2010, 01:36:36 PM »
The president is  being honest in saying that passage of the bill hasn't led to the Armageddon predicted by the republicans for the last 14 months.

The fears over health care that have been artifically but artfully created by the republican party have been detrimental to our chances of being told the truth, something most Americans want to hear.  It is completely reasonable for our president to point that lie out, if for no other reason than to allay people's fears and get them to take a reasoned look at what has passed.

I firmly believe that each and every one of us will know more people who have been helped by this bill than hurt by it, and I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't already know quite a few people who will be better off because of it.

Both dems and republicans have said that they agree on at least 80% of the provisions in the law, and there are between 100 and 200 republican-inspired amendments in the bill that was passed. The republicans should man-up and see the remaining 20% as the 'spoils of war' that are rewarded to the winners of the last few elections. This same situation occurs every time there is a power swap in Washington.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 01:40:32 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2010, 01:50:08 PM »
Jim,
Do you think its merely a coincidence that this puppy doesn't really kick in till AFTER the next presidential election?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2010, 02:04:32 PM »
Jud,
No it's not a coincidence, but not in the way you suspect. How would we be able to deal with the changes if it all went into effect immediately?

It has taken a long time to get this type of legislation passed and it will take a relatively short time to get it all implemented, but I think its a good thing that it rolls out over time as it gives lawmakers a chance to tweak the legislation.

If you were to believe the republican mantra it shouldn't matter how long it takes for every provision to kick in, it's so bad that our democracy won't even exist 3 years from now.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2010, 02:21:24 PM »
Anyone truly interested in healthcare reform should read: 

The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care by T. R. Reid

From Publishers Weekly
Washington Post correspondent Reid (The United States of Europe) explores health-care systems around the world in an effort to understand why the U.S. remains the only first world nation to refuse its citizens universal health care. Neither financial prudence nor concern for the commonweal explains the American position, according to Reid, whose findings divulge that the U.S. not only spends more money on health care than any other nation but also leaves 45 million residents uninsured, allowing about 22,000 to die from easily treatable diseases. Seeking treatment for the flareup of an old shoulder injury, he visits doctors in the U.S., France, Germany, Japan and England—with a stint in an Ayurvedic clinic in India—in a quest for treatment that dovetails with his search for a cure for America's health-care crisis, a narrative device that sometimes feels contrived, but allows him valuable firsthand experience. For all the scope of his research and his ability to mint neat rebuttals to the common American misconception that universal health care is socialized medicine, Reid neglects to address the elephant in the room: just how are we to sell these changes to the mighty providers and insurers? (Sept.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.


From The Washington Post
From The Washington Post's Book World/washingtonpost.com Reviewed by Phillip Longman During last year's Republican presidential primary season, candidate Rudy Giuliani succinctly captured what millions of Americans think about health care abroad. "These countries that say they provide universal coverage -- they pay a price for it, you know," Giuliani told his audience. "They do it by rationing care, by long waiting lines, and by limiting, or I should say eliminating, a patient's choice." T.R. Reid has done a service to his nation by showing in his latest book just how uninformed this conventional wisdom is. Based on his own experience and research, "The Healing of America" is both readable and informative. Many decades ago, Reid suffered an accident while in the Navy that left him with a bum shoulder, a condition that, while not acutely painful, became increasingly bothersome as he aged. During his long career as a foreign correspondent for The Washington Post, he and his family received high-quality, routine care from doctors in places such as Tokyo and London. These two circumstances provided Reid with the inspiration for his book and set him off on "a quest for two cures." He traveled around the world, visiting doctors in places as diverse as Taiwan, France and India to see how their health-care systems would approach treating his shoulder pain, and in the process he searched for insights to cure the U.S. health-care crisis. Reid checked himself into the famous Arya Vaidya Chikitsalayam, an institution that he describes as the Mayo Clinic of traditional Indian medicine, and was surprised when a haughty astrologer and her retinue used a collection of shells, rocks and statuettes of Hindu gods to divine whether the stars were aligned to favor his treatment. It turned out they were. Reid then underwent a regime that involved drinking "a vile assortment of herbal medicines, most of which tasted like spoiled greens or aging mud," as well as a diet of gruel and performance of poojah, or reverence, to the Hindu god of healing, Dhanwanthari. Perhaps more helpfully, strong, skillful therapists went to work three times a day slathering him with spiced sesame oil and massaging his whole body, with special attention to his sore shoulder. After weeks of this treatment, Reid lost nine pounds and became a very mellow man. He also discovered that the pain in his shoulder was gone and that he had much greater mobility in his arm. The cost of this therapy came to $42.85 per day -- far less than that of the invasive total-shoulder anthroplastic surgery recommended by Reid's American doctor, who couldn't say what replacing his shoulder might cost after the various insurance adjusters were done. Reid would have paid even less had he purchased Indian insurance, which typically covers the treatment that fixed his shoulder, including the cost of the astrologer. Elsewhere on his journey, Reid discovered other curious truths about health care abroad that Americans don't know. For example, Germany and Switzerland manage to provide universal coverage while preserving a greater role for competing private-sector doctors and insurance companies than the United States does. In those countries, it is true that government regulation and price controls also play a big role. However, in Britain, a supposed bastion of "socialized medicine," most doctors are in business for themselves and are often highly entrepreneurial in seeking new patients; some even make house calls. Reid learned that Britain's National Health Service would not pay for the anthroplasty his American doctor recommended unless he was in acute pain, but as his Indian experience proved, he didn't need the operation. Similarly, in France and Japan, consumers have quicker access to a broader range of providers than most Americans do (no cost for going "out of network"). And no one is ever denied an insurance claim or thrown into medical bankruptcy. What's more, per-capita health-care costs are far lower than in the United States and health-care outcomes better. Canada does have long waiting lists for elective procedures, but other nations such as Germany, France, Sweden and Denmark outperform the United States in providing quick access to specialists. Reid was able to make an appointment with one of Japan's top orthopedic surgeons the same afternoon he made his first call. Reid acknowledges that the health systems in the countries he studied have their own problems. He also admits that none has figured out how to contain the global long-term trend toward higher costs as populations age, the spread of the Western lifestyle and diet causes an epidemic of chronic illness, and expensive new medical technologies become available. But he does demonstrate that Guiliani and like-minded Americans put forward a distorted image when they contend that other industrialized countries ration health care and constrain patients' choice of doctors, deny effective care and, in essence, provide socialized medicine. Reid shows us how other advanced countries easily combine universal coverage and government regulation with entrepreneurialism and respect for market forces to produce high-quality, low-cost health care -- a simple empirical truth we can no longer afford to ignore.
Copyright 2009, The Washington Post. All Rights Reserved.


Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2010, 03:04:06 PM »
Can anybody explain to me how not purchasing something is "commerce" that can be regulated Constitutionally under the Commerce Clause?  Or better yet, how this is within the taxing power granted to Congress under Art 1, Section 8 (don't forget: it took the 16th Amendment to get the punitive -- oops, I mean "graduated" - income tax legal)?  

I think our "leaders" in Washington may just have accidentally raised the Tenth Amendment from the dead with this law ... the ultimate unintended consequence -  at least from their perspective.  


It's clearly unconstitutional under any theory that cares about what the Framers intended.  Under current Commerce Clause (and taxing power) jurisprudence, however, I think it will be upheld. 

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2010, 03:24:41 PM »
I think it might also be raising the Capitation Clause from the dead, too. 

What kind of odds do you want on whether any court declares any part of the health-care bill unconstitutional on that basis? 

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2010, 05:47:27 PM »
There is a cost to being part of society and there are requirements.
There are only a couple of states that don't require their residents to buy auto insurance, and in Massachusetts you cannot register a car without it, plus you must carry it for the life of the registration.
Now, no one is forcing you to buy it, but you don't get the benefit of registering a car without it. Conversely, if you don't buy a health insurance plan but end up in an emergency room with a burst appendix, you will enjoy the benefit of medical services that myself and every other buyer of health insurance will end up paying for.
I don't mind paying for medicaid and medicare but there are millions of uninsured who don't fit into those categories yet will receive care that they will never be able to pay for. This costs me, you, and everyone else who pays taxes.

But I don't expect that sanity is going to stop all these republican attorneys general from bringing these lawsuit as many of them are either birthers, secessionists, or playing partisan politics. As has already been seen, the governor of Va. has reversed policy and made homosexuality a legitimate excuse for firing a state worker, and his atty. general is trying to force state colleges to follow the policy. These are just two of the nutbags that are responsible for this latest legal stupidity.

These guys are a bunch of wussies who should man-up and accept the fact that they lost an election.   
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 08:50:49 PM »
Jim,
1. Do you somehow think we're now magically NOT going to have to pay for these folks?

2. I don't think the Republicans are focused on the last election.  I think they're licking their chops over the next one...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2010, 08:52:37 PM »
3. Hurray-we're turning into Europe.  Just look how well they're doing.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2010, 08:56:35 PM »
I think a look back some 17 years is in order. See just how many republicans wanted a health care mandate when the Clinton's were trying to reform the system, and how many of them are still in Congress today.

My opinion is the same as that held by Newt Gingrich:

In his 2005 book, Winning the Future: A 21st Century Contract with America, in a section with the title "Your 21st Century Health Rights," he wrote:

"You have the right to be part of the lowest-cost insurance pool and you have a responsibility to buy insurance. We need some significant changes to ensure that every American is insured, but we should make it clear that a 21st Century Intelligent System requires everyone to participate in the insurance system.
People who for libertarian reasons do not want to be insured should be required to post a bond so their health care costs will be covered if they have an accident or an expensive illness."


.....and again, in his 2008 book, Real Change: From the World That Fails to the World That Works   he wrote:

"Finally, we should insist that everyone above a certain level buy coverage (or, if they are opposed to insurance, post a bond). Meanwhile, we should provide tax credits or subsidize private insurance for the poor."


So it becomes pretty clear that the republicans have been spreading tractor trailer size loads of manure about mandates and are using them as nothing more than a political tool to make President Obama look bad. I mean, Newt Gingrich has supported these mandates, how much more conservative can you get than Newt?

These attorneys general are wusses who have no moral compass of their own, they only do what they are told. They are little more than no-conscience political hacks who really don't care about health care mandates, they only care about scoring poiltical points and will sacrifice good health care reform for every American to reach that end.

edit: Just saw your post Jud. No magic involved. The dollars that young and healthy people bring to the system help offset cost. I don't know by how much, but it will help.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 09:29:30 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Rising Costs?
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2010, 09:24:51 PM »
I will defer to folks more knowledgeable than myself.  Just seems like they focused more on throwing everone in the pool rather than really dealing with causes and costs, both of which we will be forced to deal with eventually.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

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