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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia (pics)
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 03:12:42 AM »
That's interesting, Richard.

The most recent work is the flanking bunker on 9, the fairway bunkering on 14 and (I think) the greenside bunkering on 12 - and I would put all three among the best bunkering - functionally and visually - on the course.

If the Super did the master plan for the rest of the work, I can only assume he had a hand in that as well, which bodes well for the extensive work they appear to have planned.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 03:13:05 AM »
10 - Par 4 - 375m (412y)
Not too much to say here that the pics don't scream out. The condition is owing to the transfer to couch grass from kikuyu. The drive will run hard left, so it's key to start down the right, then the second is a mid to short iron back up aa slight hill to the green. Probably ties with 18 as the tightest par four or five on the course.



11 - Par 4 - 373m (410y)
Two major options. The wide RHS is blind from the tee, but allows an easier line in, unobstructed by trees. An easier lay-up down the visible left leaves a mid iron across the dogleg, to a steeply-tilted back-to-front green. This has a pretty big and unneccesary forced carry from the tee, and one that raises up a bit from the tee level. I find those a bit annoying. It doesn't seem right to me for a thin but otherwise well-struck drive to be impeded. (Pic is taken at the front of the forward tee to show the hole as it lays - the green is visible over the scrub)


12 - Par 3 - 176m (193y)
This hole sets up really nicely to the eye, some of the most visually appealing bunkering on the course, with more favourable land to the right (esp. short right) that will kick the ball toward the flag than is visible here. You need to trust that, but it's hard to do that when it's so hard to see.


13 - Par 5 - 462m (508y)
Another forced carry, with the LHS protected by a waste area that blurs into thickish scrub at about the 230m area and the RHS flanked by thick scrub. The second is blind to a wide landing area, leaving a downhill pitch to the large, flat green, that tilts slightly to the front. The green is bunkered to favour an approach from the RHS. Plenty of room right of the last 100m or so of the journey where the hole could be redirected to interact with the seaside (if permission were granted). It's reachable in two for some, playing downhill. The view from the green, looking north along the shore is breathtaking. (couch conversion underway on this hole, hence the dud conditioning)




14 - Par 4 - 340m (374y)
Doglegging slightly to the right, the flag is visible in the distance past the blind driving zone, tempting you to cut the corner. However, a group of bunkers (added late 2007) waits to swallow the drive. The play is to the left and take the kind angle up the mouth of the green. The fairway bunkers reward local knowledge, because at first sight it's just so tempting to take the straight line to the flag.



Four holes to come.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 06:05:04 AM »
Scott

BTW - St Michael's "forced carries" are nothing like those at Pive Valley  ;)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 10:09:41 AM »
Probably true, KP.

I didn't find myself bothered by them, but I played with three higher handicappers that day and saw just how much those carries annoyed them and to a small extent ruined their day. On 11 and 18 particularly, they are unnecessary. I just think a forced carry should only exist where the land naturally forces it (like on 2 at St Mick's), not where they plant a long hedge in front of the tee!

At Pine Valley, the course is there for a very particular challenge of the best players. I don't know that St Mick's can make that claim!

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2010, 01:22:19 PM »
Scott,

Are you going to finish this review?

Pup

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2010, 03:28:57 PM »
I am, Michael. I keep meaning to, but like Brian Phillips with his review of the course next door, I keep forgetting to do it when I have the time, then I remember when I am at work!

Soon, I promise!

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2010, 11:23:32 PM »
Sounds like me with absolutely everything I do!  ;D

Anyway, I played here today in pennants, and I must say the course is in absolutely brilliant condition. Some of the best greens I've ever putted on... Very quick and pure.

Pup

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2010, 04:56:11 AM »
So not like over the fence, then? ;D

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2010, 01:34:53 PM »
Sounds like me with absolutely everything I do!  ;D

Anyway, I played here today in pennants, and I must say the course is in absolutely brilliant condition. Some of the best greens I've ever putted on... Very quick and pure.

Pup

Michael,

Who are you playing pennants for?

St. Michaels seems very overgrown to me... considerably more so since the last time I played there in 2003. Brian Phillips et al may think NSW has the aesthetics of muni, but you have to admit the greens at NSW, despite lacking the internal contours that some feel are necessary for the course to remain in world's top 50, are at least nicely sited.

There is simply very little pleasing to the eye on most approach shots at St. Michaels. There is so much potential there, however, that someone like Michael Clayton could probably get the course into the Australian Top 20 without changing the routing.

BTW-Agree on the Coast/Randwick thing, but it will never happen because it's not politically feasible to privatize the courses and prevent access to the coast. And that's the only way you'd get the money to anything significant on that piece of land.
Next!

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia 10-14 ADDED
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2010, 06:27:45 AM »
Scott,

Absolutely nothing like em.  :) For anyone reading this, the greens at NSW are going through a VERY tough time right now. It's 50% off to play there but the experience is minimalised because of the greens.. They'll be back in 4-5 weeks.

Anthony,

I play for NSWGC.

There is way too much scrub at St Micks, and the course could be highly improved just by the clearing of SOME of it. For example, on 15 yesterday, I couldn't even see the pin on the RHS because of scrub. It's insane.

Scott,

What was your favorite hole on the course? My favorite would have to be 2 or 16. I love 16 from the back back tee.  ;D

Pup

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia THE FINAL FOUR (FINALLY)
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2010, 08:01:05 AM »
Alright then, the final four holes:

15 - Par 3 - 206m (226y)
A subtle green and rewards a shot that stays below the hole, and a nice gentle left-to-right slope on which to run the ball in. Not a brilliant par three, but continues the variety of the one-shotters. Bit of a tight look from the back tee, but quite an open vista from further forward.


16 - Par 4 - 379m (417y)
The drive from the back tee is borderline crazy. In itself a pretty thrilling carry for those capable of making it, but for everyone else it's a hiding to nothing - 150m over a gully of thick scrub. And on the back off all the pointless forced carries off the tee to this point, it's just overkill on the overkill. Which is a pity, because the second shot is pretty cool: a blind shot to a downhill target on land that angles hard to the left and back to front and as such favours an approach from that side, which means hugging the bush on the left after flying 150m of it to reach the fairway, where a "bail out" to the right is far safer, but adds length to the second shot and creates a tough angle.



17 - Par 5 - 498m (547y)
The drive here will reach the foot of - or perhaps halfway up - a steep ridge where the fairway rises about 15m on a 1.5:1 slope. I can't see a mortal carrying it up the hill, but I haven't watched an elite golfer play the hole, so I can't say it would be impossible. But for us mortals, given a good drive leaves you at the foot of that awkward slope, it's best to lay back of it by some distance so the second is a bit less daunting and you can hit a less lofted club and still carry the hill. Once up on the top level, the fairway tightens towards the raised green, which I think looks great in its site, but doesn't offer much to think about. With the tee moved up enough that flying that hill were an option, I think this could be an awesome hole. As it is it doesn't do all that much for me.



18 - Par 4 - 402m (442y)
And of course we finish with another ridiculously unnecessary forced carry. The second shot is actually quite fun, with a natural valley in the fairway playing with your depth perception a bit. A fitting way to end: a forced carry, a tight corridor and a bit of an average green.



St Michael's is a frustrating course because there is so much more that site could have yielded. But even as it stands today there are really enjoyable holes at 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12 and 14. Some just need some clearing, but other holes drag the course kicking and screaming down several notches.

The news that a greens overhaul is planned is exciting, and I hope those overseeing it decide to carry out some tree clearing while they are at it.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia THE FINAL FOUR (FINALLY)
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2010, 06:28:09 PM »
Scott

They could do worse than let Mr "chainsaw" at it  ;)

Thanks for the tour - what construction is going up behind the 18th ?

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia THE FINAL FOUR (FINALLY)
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2010, 07:07:39 PM »
Those are the flats that, if I am not mistaken, are part of the Prince of Wales re-development that mostly overlooks The Coast Golf Club.

Clearing would do wonders, but if my week back home reminded me of one thing, it was just how completely the notion that thick barriers of trees are a good thing is considered gospel in Sydney. In many cases there is an added element of safety issues brought about by boundaries that are too close to playing corridors, but at the same time I believe those clubs really think their tight corridors are a good thing.

Michael Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia THE FINAL FOUR (FINALLY)
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2010, 09:12:06 AM »
Thanks for that Scott.

Did you play from the extreme back tees that day? If not, how often are they used?

What is the best/worst hole on the course in your opinion?

Pup

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St Michael's GC, Sydney, Australia THE FINAL FOUR (FINALLY)
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2010, 09:23:51 AM »
Thanks for that Scott.

Did you play from the extreme back tees that day? If not, how often are they used?

What is the best/worst hole on the course in your opinion?

Pup

We didn't. We played the whites, which are one set forward from the tips.

Best hole: Probably 14. It has plenty of interest on the drive and an attractive and tricky approach. The reason I am excited about the planned work has a lot to do with the new bunkering on 14. If they can replicate the merits of 14 around the course it will be a very good thing.

Worst: 6, 8, 10 all make claims for the title. It would be unfair to the other two to choose just one ;D