[JC Jones]

Tom D,

I blame my inability to attend for Team Michigan's loss.

[Carl Nichols]

Tom Y:

The people down there include caddies and forecaddie and maybe someone playing #11 -- there seemed to be a lot of balls over on #12 from the eleventh tee, more than I'm used to seeing.

Tom, you would be interested to know that we sent out five foursomes (alternate-shot) matches followed by four groups of four playing singles matches.  The foursomes matches all finished 18 holes in 3 1/2 hours or less; then we had to wait 1/2 hour for the first four-ball to get home, and they straggled in after that, several minutes apart.

Tom:
We were actually a three-ball and finished at exactly four hours, probably 1 or 1 1/2 holes back of the foursomes match in front of us.  Behind us there was at least a 1/2 hour gap, and we had a twosome of members finish behind us, who must've snuck in among the GCA groups.  

[jonathan_becker]

Tom Yost,

Most caddies know that the safest place to stand is the middle of the fairway.    

Our group's forecaddie hustled and was pretty quick with the yardages.  I appreciated that.  

[Keith Buntrock]

Is there a committee already hard at work planning next year's Midwest Mashie? I would love to attend if its on the other side of Lake Michigan.

[Matt Schmidt]

I'm glad I got to meet many that attended - class acts all around.  It was a great first GCA event for me and I look forward to many more. 

Tom D. - thanks again for being so generous with your time and information.  Tim - thanks for your time and input as well.  Sven - nice top 10 list!  Steve S - my wife still can't get her head around this male bonding via internet thing, and there is no way to verbalize it that makes any sense!  Andrew - although you kindly noted that there are no apologies in foursomes, I'M SORRY!    Pat and Mike K - it's good to be Foo King Long (and I want some of those Foo King Scratch wedges - spinning a 15-yard shot out of the junk is a nice way to sell clubs!!).  Mark S - not every one can (or should) wear purple pants - I like your style!  Rich - hope you made it home OK after all that driving.  Everyone else - Thanks.

P.S. I ordered a few dozen ProV1's via one of those personalization offers with "MIDWEST MASHIE....LOST DUNES GC.....MAY 15-16 2010" on them.  Was going to pass them around, but despite the delivery guarantee, they arrived TODAY.  So if any of you make it to metro-Detroit and want to tee it up, I can host and give you some souvenir golf balls!

[Chuck Brown]

Tom Y:

The people down there include caddies and forecaddie and maybe someone playing #11 -- there seemed to be a lot of balls over on #12 from the eleventh tee, more than I'm used to seeing.

Tom, you would be interested to know that we sent out five foursomes (alternate-shot) matches followed by four groups of four playing singles matches.  The foursomes matches all finished 18 holes in 3 1/2 hours or less; then we had to wait 1/2 hour for the first four-ball to get home, and they straggled in after that, several minutes apart.

Tom, I believe that my foursomes match (we were first off) finished in about 3:05.  I think everybody really enjoyed it.

JC Jones - I can explain the Michigan/East loss; it was because I alternated in as a "West" player 
 

[Matt OBrien]

Thanks for a fun weekend. Team Michigan has their work cut out for next year. Captian Doak will have a practice for us next year at Old Mac see you all next year.

[Mark Smolens]

Though this is probably getting boring, let me too reiterate my thanks to our Captains, George and Tom, for putting this together. I can't wait to get back to Bridgman in August. I had a blast with all of my playing partners and opponents (Matt, he who owns the purple, rules the world. . .  and Zack, you owe me a golf ball).

Just wondering, did Steve's camera get into that bottle of Jack on Saturday night? For some reason Rich's photos seemed to be more sober.

[George Freeman]

Thanks for all the kind words.  It was truly a pleasure meeting everyone and I had a blast hacking it around Lost Dunes with my playing partners (sorry Bill S. for pulling me as an alternate shot partner!).  Thank you again Tom for helping us get out at Lost Dunes and putting up with our Q&A Saturday night.  I think I can speak for everyone when I say it was really interesting getting your insight on various topics, including the golf course we all just played.

Good work to the West Team in winning the Inaugural Midwest Mashie (11-9)!  The Mashie is in safe keeping until I dust it off and putt it up for grabs in next years event.

[JWinick]

Ok, so now that we have played the course more than once, what do you all think of the fourth green?   I loved it.  It's a short Par 5, so I don't see the problem with a wild green.   However, I can see how some people may hate it. 

[jonathan_becker]

Ok, so now that we have played the course more than once, what do you all think of the fourth green?   I loved it.  It's a short Par 5, so I don't see the problem with a wild green.   However, I can see how some people may hate it.  

It might be the most difficult green I've ever played and the initial part of the hole lures you into a false sense of security until you get around the green.

The fairway is huge and it sets up perfectly for a slinger draw around the corner.  With the hole being downwind both days, most guys had a chance to hit it in 2.  The part that catches you first isn't the green, but it's the long grass behind the green that creeps closer the further you miss to the right.  You would think that missing to the right is the smart play because you're pitching back up the slope, but actually, the correct miss is to the left with the open runoff area. The grass to the right will catch tons of balls (it caught mine the first day) and your birdie chance is virtually gone at that point. But from the left it's extremely difficult to get it close because you're pitching back down the slope....and calling it a slope is an understatement!!  Unless you knock it stiff, you're gonna be working hard to get it in the hole.

All I know is that if your gonna make 4, your short game had better be tip top.  It's a crazy hole, but I think I like it.  

EDIT - Dan Moore just started a great thread on #4.

[Sven Nilsen]

I have a rudimentary routing question for Tom Doak that I probably should have thought of Saturday night, but didn't because I was too busy filling my face with that tri-colored seafood pasta... :

5 par 3s...

Three run west.

Two run south.

None north and none east.

How come?  

Shivas, I think you've been duped.  3 runs east, 5 runs ssw, 9 actually runs more to the west than it does to the south, 13 runs on a similar line to 5 and 16 runs east.  The only direction missing is north.

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven, you're right - partly.  I keep thinking that the highway runs mostly east there, but it's really running mostly N to NE at that point, which got me confused directionally.

Still, look at Google Earth:  3 and 16 run the same way (just slightly southeast) and 5, 9 and 13 all run southwest into the same basic prevailing wind...

As long as you say 5 (ssw), 9 (wsw) and 13 (sw) generally run to the SW, we are in agreement.

I've always thought the directions of par 3's to be a topic that gets people too excited.  Its pretty cool when it works out that they play to the points on the compass.  But it would be hard to make that the case on a true out and back routing.  And for a routing like Lost Dunes where holes play to every direction, the fact that the par three's don't run to the north wind only means you'll have some second shots on 4's that do.

[Tim Nugent]

Shivas, with as disjointed as that site is - an interstate cutting across one hald and and entrance road across most of the other half, where would you put one? The long stretches of n/s RE were used to get the par 5's hence no e/w par 5's either.  But, since the 3rd shot for 5's and mid-4's is essentially the same as a 3 - does itr eally matter that much or is it just cookbook analysis? Plus, being so close to Lake M, the winds tend to come from multiple directions depending on low or high pressure.

Without the environmental constraints, I doubt if #9 would have been a 3. That walkback is pretty long around the wetland. I probably would have played both 9 and 18 to 18 fairway.  Tom smiled when I told him and said they did look at it and even planted some of the only trees they planted to close off the gap as 9 was too evident coming up 18.

[Matt OBrien]

Ok, so now that we have played the course more than once, what do you all think of the fourth green?   I loved it.  It's a short Par 5, so I don't see the problem with a wild green.   However, I can see how some people may hate it. 

You didnt get to play the 4th green the second day!!!!!

[Tom_Doak]

Shivas:

I didn't worry too much about the par-3's not playing in every compass direction.

The direction of four of them (3, 9, 13 and 16) was pretty much locked in due to the shape of the property and the boundaries of the ponds and environmental easements.  The fifth hole was really the only "elective" -- at one time I had #5 playing as a short 4 across the entrance road and then #6 was a par-3 into the corner, but Jeff Shearer was concerned about playing across the entrance, so we switched them back.  Either way, that short hole would've played the same compass direction, anyway.

I have always thought that the four-points-of-the-compass par-3 thing is an overrated ideal, that many modern architects are slaves to just because it's an easy thing to pick on. 

I do note that #5 is the longest par-3 and #13 the shortest, so the wind will not push them both of them back toward the median.  If you've got your long par-3 downwind and your short 3 into the wind, then they aren't really as long or short as they claim to be.

P.S. to Tim:  There is an E-W par-5 hole, it's #10.

[Sven Nilsen]

I do note that #5 is the longest par-3 and #13 the shortest, so the wind will not push them both of them back toward the median.  If you've got your long par-3 downwind and your short 3 into the wind, then they aren't really as long or short as they claim to be.

The four par 3's at Cog Hill play to different yardages on the cards, but with the right wind and taking into account elevation changes they all can play to essentially the same yardage.  I had a round there earlier in the month where I pulled the same club on each of them. 

[Anthony Gray]

I have several alibis for this past weekend.  Besides, the guy does not wear sunglasses:

  Hilarious.

[Tim Nugent]

Shivas:

I didn't worry too much about the par-3's not playing in every compass direction.

The direction of four of them (3, 9, 13 and 16) was pretty much locked in due to the shape of the property and the boundaries of the ponds and environmental easements.  The fifth hole was really the only "elective" -- at one time I had #5 playing as a short 4 across the entrance road and then #6 was a par-3 into the corner, but Jeff Shearer was concerned about playing across the entrance, so we switched them back.  Either way, that short hole would've played the same compass direction, anyway.

I have always thought that the four-points-of-the-compass par-3 thing is an overrated ideal, that many modern architects are slaves to just because it's an easy thing to pick on. 

I do note that #5 is the longest par-3 and #13 the shortest, so the wind will not push them both of them back toward the median.  If you've got your long par-3 downwind and your short 3 into the wind, then they aren't really as long or short as they claim to be.

P.S. to Tim:  There is an E-W par-5 hole, it's #10.

Tom, I must be brain-dead. At least it was a par 5 for me!  I guess I forgot because Ken Fry hit the second shot on Sunday so all I remembered was Drive and 2nd shot was over.

[Steve Salmen]

Will the person who shared a cabin with me and paid for my food please PM me or email me at mur352@yahoo.com so I can get repayment details?   Thank you.  Steve

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
As a fairly new boy on the block and as far away from Lake Michigan as one can reliably get (Brisbane Oz) I have taken vicarious pleasure in following this thread from its inception to its denouement.  It sounded as though it was going to be a fun-filled adventure on a course that, now proven by the marvelous pictures supplied, would be a thrill. And so it has. It was fun for me to put faces to some of the names that pop up with such regularity on this site. Quite a few of you look as though your bark is worse than your bite.! Thanks for the entertainment and the introduction to another great American golf course.

The Hielander

[Carl Nichols]

What a motley crew in Dan's last pic....

Carl Nichols, me, Chris Flamion, Chuck Brown....pre pillowfight.

And that was before you had to carry me around. . . !

[Bill Seitz]

Sorry to call this thread back to the top of everyone's page, but Ran graciously allowed me to register today, so I wasn't able to post last week.  I just wanted to thank everyone treating me like one of the group, even though I was an "unknown" and a last minute replacement.  I've already thanked some people individually, but it was a really great group to be a part of.  And of course, the golf course was terrific.

And George, don't worry about it.  I'm pretty sure I hit enough poor shots in our foursomes match to give you a run for your money.  Of course, the kicker is that I hit my best drive of the day on 18, after it was already decided. 

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