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Tom MacWood

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What are the best courses in Chicago...
« on: March 12, 2010, 06:31:27 AM »
What are the best courses in Chicago today (top 5)? What were the best courses in Chicago (top 5) in 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1960 and 1980?

jonathan_becker

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 07:09:14 AM »
Tom,

I worked in the golf business for a short time in Chicago and played a fair amount of mid-level private clubs, but not all the top clubs.  Based on what I know and opinions from others that I worked with, here are my picks for today

1. Chicago
2. Shoreacres
3. Butler
4. Medinah
5. OF - North

Alternatives - Flossmoor, Beverly, Skokie, Black Sheep, OF - South (wow....there a some great courses in the Chi)

I'm sure the Chicago guys that have lived there a long time and have played everywhere can give more of a hometown list than mine.  
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:44:41 AM by jonathan_becker »

Mark Chaplin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 09:53:22 AM »
I'd also add Old Elm to this list it may not be the tougest but is a wonderful layout in top condition, my personal top 5;

Chicago
Old Elm
Flossmoor
OFCC - North
Black Sheep
Cave Nil Vino

Jud_T

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 09:57:56 AM »
for my money today:

1. Chicago
2. Shoreacres
3. OFCC North
4. Skokie
5. Black Sheep

1900:  (my feeble guess?)

1. Chicago
2. Onwentsia
3. Midlothian
4. Exmoor
4. Belmont
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:07:53 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

PCCraig

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 10:13:38 AM »
Below are the courses that I am somewhat familiar with, meaning either I've played it in the last couple years, or I've played it multiple times. I then separated them by rough tiers, and their year of opening next to them.

Beverly (1907) - Haven't seen it since 2001, but I liked it then and from pictures and what I'm told it's even better now.
Black Sheep (2002) - Very good design in the way western suburbs.
Bob 'O Link (1916) - This is borderline top tier golf courses IMO...usually gets bumps from others because they mistake the atmosphere for GCA.
Butler (1974) - Much discussed, haven't seen it since Fazio came in a few years ago to spruce up the layout though.
Chicago Golf (1894) - The great-granddaddy :)
Dubsdread (1964) - Certainly the flagship of the very strong public golf scene
Medinah (1928) - Long and hard, but a mainstay in Chicago and tournament golf.
Old Elm (1913) - Old Elm comes in a close 2nd to SA of courses in Chicago that I most enjoy playing.
OFCC - North (1922) - Great, and pretty underrated, championship golf course.
OFCC - South (1916) - Fantastic renovation by Smyers.
Shoreacres (1921) - Maybe not the "best" even though it's a fantastic course but my favorite place to play in Chicago.
Skokie (1915) - Very strong golf course, even if many hands have touched it at different points.

-------------
Conway Farms (1991) - New Fazio in Lake Forest. Nice place to play but the GCA is lacking in some spots.
Evanston (1914) - Jack N. butchered the course in a "renovation" in the 1980's, Ron P. was recently brought in to fix that.
Exmoor (1915) - Played a lot in high school and always enjoyed it alot, since been renovated.
The Glen Club (2001) - I used to caddy there and actually think it's pretty good Fazio effort.
Kemper Lakes (1979) - Maybe not in fashion today, but I always liked the course and think it's the best of the Nugent/Chicago style GCA.
Knollwood Club (1923)*
Lake Shore CC (1908)*
North Shore CC (1924)* *All nice places to play, but none will blow your socks off IMO.
Onwentsia Club (1896) - Pretty neat since Doak came in and essentially built a new golf course.  
Wynstone (1989) - The front nine at this Jack N. course is pretty darn good, back nine gives me headaches.

---------------
Pine Meadow (1985) - Solid public course built on Flynn bones.
Ravisloe (1915) - Fun course recently made public and much talked about here.
Rich Harvest Farms (1998) - Good in spots, but overdone in many others.
Sunset Ridge CC (1924) - Nice North Shore layout.
Thunderhawk (1999) - Solid RTJ, Jr. design in a Forest Preserve up by the WI border.
Westmoreland (1911) - Not my favorite but pretty good, has had major issues with their greens over the past 10 years.
Wilmette GC (1922) - ;)




H.P.S.

Terry Lavin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 11:26:41 AM »
Here's my stab at part of the assignment:

Current:

Olympia Fields North
Medinah #3
Butler National
Shoreacres
Chicago Golf Club

1900

Chicago Golf Club
Midlothian
Homewood (now Flossmoor)
Onwentsia
Glen View Club

1930

Chicago Golf Club
Olympia Fields #4
Shoreacres
Beverly
North Shore

1960

Medinah #3
Olympia Fields North
Chicago Golf Club
Shoreacres
Beverly

1980

Medinah #3
Butler National
Olympia Fields
Chicago Golf Club
Shoreacres

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jud_T

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 11:37:07 AM »
The Honorable TLavin makes a return appearance on GCA!!! To what do we owe this fine honor? Awesome to see you posting here, you've been sorely missed..... This is perhaps more momentus than Tiger's return at Augusta!    ;D
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 11:43:16 AM »
 :-X
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 03:18:00 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Terry Lavin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 11:48:48 AM »
The Honorable TLavin makes a return appearance on GCA!!! To what do we owe this fine honor? Awesome to see you posting here, you've been sorely missed..... This is perhaps more momentus than Tiger's return at Augusta!    ;D

Hmmm.  Being compared to a serial philanderer!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Tim_Cronin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 03:12:58 PM »
Terry, that's pretty darn good, but I'd put Mill Road Farm at the top of that 1930 list by all accounts.
Seconded. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it had a higher course rating than Medinah No. 3. A great lost Flynn. (Jud, it was owned by Lasker.)
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jason Topp

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 03:36:23 PM »
Interesting that Medina is on so many lists despite the bashing it took when it hosted the PGA.

Dan Moore

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 05:32:50 PM »

Here's how I see it, in no particular order.  

1900

Chicago Golf Club
Midlothian
Homewood (now Flossmoor)
Onwentsia
Glen View Club

1910
same

1920
Flossmoor
substitute Old Elm for Onwentsia
substitute Olympia Fields #1 for Midlothian
substitute Beverly for Glen View
substitute Skokie for Chicago Golf Club

1930
Chicago Golf Club
Olympia Fields #4
Shoreacres
Old Elm
Mill Road

The original 1920's Medinah #3 had to be revised in the 1930's before it was accepted as a top tier course.  


« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:37:27 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Adam Clayman

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 05:36:41 PM »
Jason, It's a reflection of how shallow the depth of great courses are in Chicago. Perhaps if other courses follow the lead of Skokie and Beverly, uncovering their courses from trees, ponds and rough, the subtle nature of the topography could shine through?

Chicago's all American attitude of working hard, improving on all things, back fired as it relates to Golf courses. Proof once again, Golf does not fit into standard thinking models.  

The best course in Chicago is in Green Lake Wisconsin.  ;D
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Rob Bice

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 05:59:26 PM »
Top 5
Chicago
Olympia Fields - North
Butler
Beverly
Skokie

Honorable Mention:  Frank Govern Memorial Golf Course - Peter N. Jans front and Barry McRaith back.
"medio tutissimus ibis" - Ovid

Chris Flamion

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 08:47:25 PM »
Since I am a serial trunk slammer, and I know better than to speak of which I do not know.

Top 5 Publics
Dubsdread - still the anchor to the public sector
Shepherd's Crook - Most Unique Public Course I have played
George W Dunne - Big, Big, Big, can't wait to go back if it gets dry for a couple weeks
Village Links - I am very biased on this one
The Glen Club - Not my cup of tea, but I know a lot of people who love it.

As an aside, I think the best greens I have played (with a couple private exceptions) belong to Mount Prospect Golf Club.  Getting to the greens isn't that great, but the greens are a great test.

PThomas

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 09:10:16 PM »
Since I am a serial trunk slammer, and I know better than to speak of which I do not know.

Top 5 Publics
Dubsdread - still the anchor to the public sector
Shepherd's Crook - Most Unique Public Course I have played
George W Dunne - Big, Big, Big, can't wait to go back if it gets dry for a couple weeks
Village Links - I am very biased on this one
The Glen Club - Not my cup of tea, but I know a lot of people who love it.

As an aside, I think the best greens I have played (with a couple private exceptions) belong to Mount Prospect Golf Club.  Getting to the greens isn't that great, but the greens are a great test.


Chris, why do you like Village Links so much?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tom MacWood

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 10:49:16 AM »
In 1928 Johnny Farrell listed his top 15 courses in America, and three were from Chicago:

1. Olympia Fields #4
2. Oakmont
3. Pine Valley
4. Quaker Ridge
5. Bob O'Link
6. Lido
7. NGLA
8. Pebble Beach
9. Brae Burn
10. Hollywood
11. Merion
12. Lasker's Private Course
13. Siwanoy
14. Baltusrol
15. El Cabellero

Terry Lavin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2010, 11:00:43 AM »
Tom,

That's a pretty interesting list.  Bob O'Link is intriguing.  In many ways it it reminiscent of Flossmoor, which had fallen prey to decades of benign neglect before they did their ambitious restoration.  Bob O'Link really has some outstanding bones, but the bland bunkering, the horrific overplanting of trees and the assumed shrinking of the greens have rendered it somewhat lackluster, in my judgment.  It would be a spectacular choice for a thoughtful restoration, but the members seem resolved to keep it mundane.  As an example, the 12th hole has a row of willows on both sides of the fairway.  Aargh!  But when the willows fall these days, they actually plant another willow, which has to be one of the dumbest tree planting decisions in modern times.  As Brad Klein might say, I'm sure there's a great golf course there, but I just can't see it.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

cary lichtenstein

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2010, 11:05:02 AM »
I played golf in Chicago for 45 years and inspite of living in the northern suburbs and belonging to a private club, I always went out to Coh Hill #4 3 or 4 times each year and loved it every time.

Sorry to not see it higher on most of the lists posted before me.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Matt_Ward

Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2010, 11:11:01 AM »
Gents:

Chicago is known for having a range of top quality public courses -- I've been to the area a few times but would like to know from the most active denizens do they see any public course (minus Cog Hill) being a possible contender for a top 10 or even a top 20 placement?

Terry Lavin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2010, 11:11:56 AM »
Cary,

It would make my Top Ten, but it's not strong enough, IMHO, to make the Top Five.  I think Jones' renovation made the golf course five shots harder and much more visually arresting, but there is too much repetition in the par 3 holes (three long, downhill holes that are fairly similar) and a few weak holes (3, 10 and 15) that keep it from being a really great golf course.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Terry Lavin

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2010, 11:12:38 AM »
Gents:

Chicago is known for having a range of top quality public courses -- I've been to the area a few times but would like to know from the most active denizens do they see any public course (minus Cog Hill) being a possible contender for a top 10 or even a top 20 placement?

Nope.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2010, 11:41:42 AM »
Gents:

Chicago is known for having a range of top quality public courses

It is?

Adam Clayman

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2010, 12:31:43 PM »
Tom,

 Never heard of Lasker's Private Course.

Could you elaborate on what I found on Wiki?

Quote
He also owned one of finest golf courses in the world. The National Golf Review in 1939 had Lasker Golf Course in Lake Forest, Illinois listed in the No. 23 slot on its list of Top 100 Courses in the World. Lasker Golf Course was built on his private estate, Mill Road Farm. It was eventually perceived as too opulent and following the depression, Lasker donated the entire property to the University of Chicago.[5]

The beginning of the socialist movement in this country? Too Opulent?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:37:28 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

George Freeman

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Re: What are the best courses in Chicago...
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2010, 12:37:44 PM »
Gents:

Chicago is known for having a range of top quality public courses

It is?

I've always heard this, but from my experience (minimal I must add) the Chicago public golf scene is not too special (and expensive).  Why does the city get the reputation as such a great public golf hub?  Pick a spot in MI and you're bound to have many more quality public courses with in an hour's drive...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

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