Stone Eagle Closes

[Jerry Kluger]

Bill: 250 members and a $250K initiation equals $62.5M - I have no idea if those were the numbers, and I would agree at those numbers there is a lot of dreaming but anything was possible during the boom times. Also look at the course construction cost of $12M plus the land and buildings comes up to a big number.  It does look like it was destined to failure once reality kicked in.  The bank is going to have to take a huge hit and perhaps they will recognize it before they stop maintaining the course.

[PThomas]

SE was great fun to play in a beautiful setting...esp during the winter..i hope something can be worked out

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, if the total cost was (an astonishing) $70 million, and the course construction all in was $12 million, that means the development cost and and initial non-golf infrastructure and buildings was $58 million.  If the note was $20 million, the developers must have put up $50 million.   Those numbers don't really compute.  I hope something can be worked out but it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Bill:  There was a lot of private investment at risk in the deal, including not just the members' initiation deposits, but private at-risk capital as well.  That was the only way the bank would go in, if all of those investors were wiped out first [including Bill Gates].  Honestly, I can't make all of the numbers add up myself, but I suspect it's because the ground cost $25 or $30 million at southern California land prices.

Rumor has it that one or two of the other clubs in the area are looking into acquiring the course (and some of its former members).

[Carr Harris]

Not to be flippant, but I'm really going to miss the chapstick they had in their locker room. I loved that Stone Eagle chapstick.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom, when added to the initiation fees Jerry mentions above, it makes more sense.  I hope plans come to fruition and Stone Eagle survives, it is a great combination of unique and fun to play.

[John Kirk]

Thought I would bring this back to the top of the heap.

Back playing at Stone Eagle.  As a member, I am very encouraged by the recent developments.  It's like night and day, going from an impending sense of doom, to the sense that I have a chance to retain my membership.  I am so grateful to the seven families who purchased the club, and have sent thank you cards appropriately.  I can only hope that members like myself, who were unable to participate in a private purchase, will be able to continue paying dues and enjoying the club.

There have been a couple of subtle changes in course presentation.  Now that only member and their guests are being allowed on the course, many of the signs and ropes used to guide players around the course are gone, and the course has a cleaner, more attractive look.  Nearing the end of the season, we are seeing more creative pin placements, but that may happen at the end of each season, as more typical pin locations have been used up.  It looks great out here, and I'm having fun.

Stone Eagle, as a golf course, may have a few limitations.  It's not very walkable, but Peter Ferlicca and I carried our bags and walked the course several times this winter.  Tiring but doable.  The land made it imperative to route the course with holes primarily up and down the prevailing slope.  The greens are medium-sized, and many of the greens have large scale, unpinnable undulations, so several greens have only 4-6 pinnable areas.  Driving the ball is very enjoyable here, but given my ability (0-3 handicap), general directional strategy off the tee does not vary on a day-to-day basis.  Stone Eagle's greatest strength as a course lies in the quality of shots presented.  I think people tend to overlook that complex modern course designs, with contour, elevation changes, subtle strategic considerations such as where to miss based on pin position, coupled with firm, fast homogenous playing surfaces, consistently yield shots both fun to hit and fun to watch.  In general, I prefer modern designs, for their greater complexity and cutting-edge playing surfaces.

All that, plus an extraordinary location, levitating above the Coachella Valley, makes it a special place to take friends.

 

[Peter Ferlicca]

Mr. Kirk,

I must say that reading that post makes me extremely jealous right now.   I am sitting in 45 degree weather in Roslyn, WA right now wishing I could have spent the month of April in Palm Desert.  I have to admit that every summer when I leave Stone Eagle, I immediately miss it there.  Something about that place makes you realize how good it is once you leave.  I still think nothing  gets your blood pumping like standing on the first tee at Stone Eagle, and having that 360 degree view all around you.  I am already looking forward to November. 

[Eric Smith]

You guys suck.

John and Peter - I got some good visuals off of that, thanks for the effort guys.  Stone Eagle sounds wonderful.

[Kyle Henderson]

It's good to hear that you are roaming those firm, ryegrass fairways once again, Captain.


My only regret from my visit to Stone Eagle was that I didn't have time to take any potos. If anyone has some good shots of the course to share (for private use only, I promise), please shoot me an PM.

[RSLivingston_III]

John,
What is the season opener and closer dates for that course? (approximate would be fine)

[jonathan_becker]

Eric,

 Everything about the place is awesome and it more than exceeded my expectations.  It's a must play if the opportunity presents itself.

[Peter Ferlicca]

John,
What is the season opener and closer dates for that course? (approximate would be fine)

Hey Ralph,

We usually open around November 6th and go through the middle of June.  We were open last summer, but no one really plays since it is extremely hot out. 

[John Kirk]

Oh, and I completely forgot.  For those of you who know the course, here is a breakdown of my personal stats.  Over five years, I have compiled a list of 98 rounds where I've kept hole-by-hole scores, with number of fairways, greens and putts thrown in for good measure.  Here are some averages:

1 - 4.43
2 - 4.28
3 - 3.28
4 - 4.27
5 - 4.50
6 - 4.35
7 - 3.43
8 - 5.27
9 - 4.26

OUT - 38.04

10 - 4.54
11 - 4.27
12 - 3.15
13 - 5.07
14 - 4.48
15 - 3.37
16 - 4.24
17 - 5.26
18 - 4.72

IN - 39.11
TOTAL - 77.15

FWY - 11.95/14
GREENS IN REGULATION - 10.31
PUTTS  32.60

[Peter Ferlicca]

Mr. Kirk

Three things that pop out from those stats

#10 being your second hardest par 4 behind #18  (this is really suprising, unless it is a back pin on ten it isn't the second hardest par 4 on the course IMO, #4, #5, #14 are harder than #10)

And #2 ranking slightly harder than #4 (most people would agree that the tee shot and green are much harder at #4, though if the pin is in one of the sides on #4, it is very birdieable)

And that #13 is so close to par.  That is the one par 5 everyone complains about the green being too hard, but obviously here it shows it is the easiest par 5, which I agree with. 

[John Kirk]

Could be that #10 is best approached with a fade.  Also, mostly uphill lies from the fairway promote pulls and hooks.  But it has a green with a very small effective size.

[Scott Szabo]

Oh, and I completely forgot.  For those of you who know the course, here is a breakdown of my personal stats.  Over five years, I have compiled a list of 98 rounds where I've kept hole-by-hole scores, with number of fairways, greens and putts thrown in for good measure.  Here are some averages:

1 - 4.43
2 - 4.28
3 - 3.28
4 - 4.27
5 - 4.50
6 - 4.35
7 - 3.43
8 - 5.27
9 - 4.26

OUT - 38.04

10 - 4.54
11 - 4.27
12 - 3.15
13 - 5.07
14 - 4.48
15 - 3.37
16 - 4.24
17 - 5.26
18 - 4.72

IN - 39.11
TOTAL - 77.15

FWY - 11.95/14
GREENS IN REGULATION - 10.31
PUTTS  32.60

John,

A while back I think you promised to provide something like this for Ballyneal.  I'd be interested in your stats there if you would be willing to provide them.

You could PM me the info if you'd rather.

Scott

[jonathan_becker]

Could be that #10 is best approached with a fade.  Also, mostly uphill lies from the fairway promote pulls and hooks.  But it has a green with a very small effective size.

John and Peter,

What do you guys normally hit off of #10? 

[Peter Ferlicca]

Could be that #10 is best approached with a fade.  Also, mostly uphill lies from the fairway promote pulls and hooks.  But it has a green with a very small effective size.

John and Peter,

What do you guys normally hit off of #10?  

Well it is a HUGE fairway, the only way you could miss this fairway is if you hit a snap hook, and even then it could possibly stay in.

It is 386 yards, all uphill

I hit driver everytime, and see no reason why to hit anything else.  After your drive depending on what side of the fairway you are on, you usually have anything from a 7 iron to a P-Wedge.  Like John said, it is a small green once you take out back pin position.  As long as you avoid hitting a pull or hook on the approach shot it isn't that bad.  Getting up and down from short left is your best option, if you go right of the green, auto bogey.

[Matt Bosela]

John,

I wish I had your accuracy!  12/14 fairways!  I don't even think I could do that at a pre-'second cut' Augusta National!

[Peter Ferlicca]

John,

I wish I had your accuracy!  12/14 fairways!  I don't even think I could do that at a pre-'second cut' Augusta National!

Matt, I am guessing you haven't been to Stone Eagle yet.  Though John Kirk is a ridiculously straight driver of the ball, you have to know Stone Eagle to understand that stat.  If you don't hit the fairways at Stone Eagle, then you are in the desert.  It is all fairway cut there, NO ROUGH.  And the fairways are HUGE.  If you shoot a round in the 70's, you pretty much have to hit every fairway, which John does quite a bit.  I haven't been to Augusta, but I would take a gander Stone Eagle has wider fairways.

[Jud_T]

PUTTS  32.60

John,

Either those are some serious Tom Doak greens or you need to spend more time on the practice putting green, or some combo of the 2...

[Bill_McBride]

PUTTS  32.60

John,

Either those are some serious Tom Doak greens or you need to spend more time on the practice putting green, or some combo of the 2...

Jud, based on one play there, I'd say it's the greens.  I've seen Kirk putt, he's good.

[jonathan_becker]

Jud,

Putts at SE tend to break wherever they please.  I had 10 feet for birdie on #18 and I swear that putt broke up the slope!! 

[Jud_T]

Jud,

Putts at SE tend to break wherever they please.  I had 10 feet for birdie on #18 and I swear that putt broke up the slope!! 

Jonathan,

Based on the Doak courses I've played I wouldn't doubt it.  However I wouldn't know at SE as my reciprocal play request was politely declined when I was in the hood....

[Tom_Doak]

John:

Surprised to see that your stroke average for #17 was as high as it is.  In fact, you seem very consistent from one hole to the next, nearly all of them between 0.2 and 0.5 strokes above par.  I would have expected a bit more variance.

Peter:

I am sure lots of people complain about #13 green, but to me it is VERY difficult when the hole is top left, and not so difficult otherwise.  I think people remember the left pin and complain about it more than is warranted.  (And without that hole location, the hole would just be too easy.)