[A_Clay_Man]

. Perhaps a complete pictorial (all angles all views) combined with poetic prose, could be very educational.

Pat these were my words that you responded to with your agenda driven comment. I believe all angles all views would qualify for un-biased. So, perhaps a modicum is needed on both sides?

Then you non-challantly ask Brad Klein "who would be the ideal advertisers" and you throw in that mashie with the "witout creating a conflict of interest". You ask the million dollar question and it comes off as a left handed back stab, To me.

I hope you didn't turn on  me because I turned on your idea when you brought the advertisers into it. You asked a question and I responded what I think. And now,since you know how to make your text bold and I don't, I feel so damn inadequate.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A Clayman,

I don't think that advertisers inherently taint a publication.

Attracting advertisers that don't create a conflict of interest would be a step toward maintaining editorial objectivity and honesty.

[T_MacWood]

For those who haven't seen Neil Crafter’s Golf Architecture....it would be difficult to match the quality of that magazine.

Beautifully produced with a wealth of interesting articles…not to mention striking photographs, sketches and diagrams (Pacific Dunes, Sand Hills, Rustic Canyon, Moonah, Royal Melbourne, Banff, vintage photos, aerials, plans, etc). I reckon future architecture nuts will be digging through old issues 80 years from now like some dig through old American Golfer and Golf Illustrateds today.

Some of the subjects covered in the first several issues: Dr. MacKenzie's lost articles on his Australian & NZ (and American) exploits, Bahto (and Gib) on the Biarritz hole, Peter Thomson on Alex Russsell (and a number of other articles), Neil Crafter’s many interesting articles (including one on SFGC), Stanley Thompson (Mingay), Shackelford has several articles (a fascinating full length essay on Max Behr forthcoming--I believe), Wexner, Hurdzan, Doak, Russell Talley & Paul Turner on Colt's Swinley Forest, Paul Daley, a lengthy essay on CH Alison’s Japanese journey (the unedited version and one of the best things I’ve ever written…I’m proud to say), and many other authors.

The magazine definitely has an Australian flavor (which in my view is a strength), however the content is international in scope. The major golf magazines are lucky to get one interesting architectural article annually….here you have an entire magazine full of them. IMO a single issue is better than half the new books on the subject. I'm surprised its not better known among the afficianados on this site.

[Kelly_Blake_Moran]

Patrick,

Similar ventures that made no money but seemed to stay alive come to mind.  George Plimpton's Paris Review, and Poetry magazine.  Poetry just received a multi million dollar gift, so they are in the clear now, but I think both were heavily subsidized and may make for some research on your part to get a feel for their expereinces.  They both have a narrow audience.  I think the printing costs including photos needs to be kept simple, inexpensive.  Despite the need to be high tech and glossy, there are a good many excellent architecture related books with modest or no photographs.  I for one would be very interested in your venture.  I hope this post meets Mr. Kleins verbosity standards, and I know Matt will object to the low tech nature of my suggestion for graphics.  I await the hammer!  Lord have mercy on me.

[George Pazin]

For what it's worth, I've been lightly researching this idea for a couple months now.

Anyone interested as a contributor or just another idea person to bounce ideas off, please message me or email me at g@sgscreeprinting.com. Anyone with experience in the magazine field willing to have his ear bent would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously, I think it can work, and have different avenues as to how to approach it.

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat- As my comments have eluded to, I think advertising does taint, It certainly taints my experience while I read any magazine.
The worst or best example was a couple of weeks ago when I sat down to read GD. The experience was HORRIBLE. Difficulty in turning a page because of the tactility and then only to get to another ad filled page. Add to that the little dive bomb subscription cardborad mail-ins that keep coming out at you, and the experience was NOT relaxing.

Editorial objectivity is noble but it almost sounds like an oxymoron. Besides, without an agenda whats the point? Education is an agenda, isn't it? Or has it become a right like heathcare?

Loooing long term, Ran's little baby here seems like a much better venue and the ability to have instant feedback and discussion makes a dust collecting magazine seem antiquated.

Once again, If the mag could be subsidized by sales, without any advertising, I feel it's a better road to pursue.

[Robert Thompson]

Having been through the magazine world as a journalist a couple of times, advertising IS THE REASON magazines exist. I can't think of an example of a publication that can make a go of it just on subscriptions.

What is doable is a newsletter of the sort often seen in industry verticals. For example, there is a telecommunications newsletter that provides detailed industry insight for those involved specifically in that niche. However, subscriptions to these newsletters are usually quite expensive, since they have little to no advertising and a small, but focused, market.

I love writing architecture stories, but have always found there is a limited market for them. The reality is that, like it or not, polling shows that readers want more info on fixing their swing and that's why the publications are packed full with ridiculous ways to cure your slice. Readers don't care about architecture, it would appear, or at least not as much as getting a tip to help them break 100.

Robert

[Patrick_Mucci]

A Clayman,

Perhaps you've never watched Sesame Street.

They have advertisers and supporters that contribute to the production costs without influencing the programing.

You must learn to broaden your horizons  

[A_Clay_Man]

Without trying to spew forth repeated ideas, according to one of the quasi-facts mentioned above, about the 2-3% interest in gca by existing publication readers, what advertiser is seriously going to consider those types of numbers?

Pat- I was only kidding about feeling inadequate. And if you were to meet me you would see I have a very broad horizon and/or profile.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

My limited experience mirrors Robert Thompson's.  Probably the only way to do it short of finding a rich benefactor is to become an academic and publish these things en route to your doctorate.

[MargaretC]

Gentlemen:

I think a GCA magazine is a GREAT idea for a multitude of reasons.  That said, I think it should be QUARTERLY and IMHO, the success of such a venture would depend, to a large degree, on the editorial policies.

I certainly do not want to be sued by Fox or Al Franken; however, "fair and balanced" comes to mind.  Seriously, IMHO, "fair" has become a nondescript concept because of the "eye of the beholder-thing.  "Balanced," on the other hand can be accomplished almost mathematically.  

There are many different architectural styles and since I happen to dislike many, if not most, modern so-called park-like-things with fountains, too many trees, etc., I would really like to know what possesses the membership, owners and/or architects to create such things.  

GREAT idea -- go for it!    

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks Tom for the kind words about our magazine. i wish that more readers/contributors on GCA were our subscribers. I would estimate we would have less than 10 people as subscribers from GCA. If that is any indication of the support levels on GCA Pat Mucci, I wouldn't rush out to start a magazine anytime soon!

Our magazine is produced under the auspices of the Society of australian Golf Course Architects. As such, we are able to get support from the Australian Golf Union (our USGA) and the Aust Golf course Superintendents Assoc in terms of free distribution to all the golf clubs and superintendents in Australia. We do take advertising, but it is limited in our case to the those companies involved in the turf and construction industry, such as Toro, Rainbird, John Deere etc. We have consciously chosen not to become like a regular golf magazine with club and ball ads.

Also, we have chosen not to be a magazine that criticizes the work of others as we strive to be a POSITIVE influence not a negative one.

We cannot force people to subscribe, we can only make them aware we exist, and despite a number of posts about our magazine over the last few years, there is obviously little awareness of us. That's Ok, but we would love to see more subscribers from the US and other countries where people contribute to GCA from. We will be making an announcement post on this site in January about our 2004 issue which will be released next month.

Pat, if you proceed with this idea, I wish you luck, and I'd be happy to hear from you if you want to ask me anything. A good idea would be to subscribe to our magazine so you can see firsthand what we do and how we have gone about it.

Look forward to a few new subscribers in the coming month or two and hope you enjoy our reading.
kind regards
Neil

Neil Crafter - editor 'Golf Architecture' magazine

ps the cover of the next issue will feature a great photo of Sutton Bay, Graham Marsh's new course in South Dakota, and inside will be a great article written by him on how he went about designing the course, accompanied by great photos by Dick Durrance and The Henebrys. Worth the price of admission alone I'd say!!

[Marty Bonnar]

Neil,
As a teeny aside since you're online, can you tell us what on earth is going on with the ASGCA website (not updated since 1998!!!!?)

Regards,
Martin.

[David_Elvins]

Everyone,

I think Tom summed up Golf Architecture magazine perfectly and  I am amazed at the low number of subscribers from this forum.  It is a great read and just gets better every year.

Neil,

I noticed that the 2003 issue was available in a lot of newsagents.  It was great to see intelligent golf architecture discussion being marketed at the general public.  How did it go, was it a successful way of distributing the magazine?

[MargaretC]

I sent a message to Neil, but thought I'd check to see if anyone knew how to subscribe to his magazine?  How often is it published?  Is postage to the US outrageous?

I'd appreciate any information.

Thanks!

[Paul_Daley]

Neil Crafter and Paul Mogford work their collectives butts off to get this journal published. The process is time-conuming: researching; sourcing; collating, editing and production; marketing; post marketing surveilence, and so forth. Most importantly, the finished product is always terrific. I personally think the journal is woefully under-priced, but I guess that makes it a bargain!  

[Tom MacWood]

bump

[Richard_Mandell]

Guys:

Adam Lawrence is a great guy in England who has been publishing a magazine called, wait for it - Golf Course Architecture.  It is a quarterly venture that has been out two or three years.  I can't beleive anyone who has been chiming in on this subject has never heard of it.  It is a great magazine.  I think this should end your thread.  Carry on.

By the way, if I scanned this thread too quickly and missed the reference, forgive me.

[Brian Phillips]

Guys:

Adam Lawrence is a great guy in England who has been publishing a magazine called, wait for it - Golf Course Architecture.  It is a quarterly venture that has been out two or three years.  I can't beleive anyone who has been chiming in on this subject has never heard of it.  It is a great magazine.  I think this should end your thread.  Carry on.

By the way, if I scanned this thread too quickly and missed the reference, forgive me.

Richard,

Look at the dates...   

[Richard_Mandell]

Brian:

Interesting concept.  Makes sense now.  i just couldn't believe no one mentioned Adam's magazine.  Honestly, I was glancing at this half way during a meeting with nine Chinese people discussing irrelevant things about a project.  I couldn't understand anything anyway so I had to find something to do.  You can sit in a room listening to a foreign language for just so long...

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