Links Magazine Best Driveable Par 4's in Golf

[Jud_T]

Any criticism or obvious omissions?:

Bandon Dunes #16
Bandon Trails #14
The Belfry (Brabazon) #10
Chambers Bay #12
Cruden Bay #8
Cypress Point #9
Merion #10
NGLA #2
Oakmont #17
TOC #12
TOC #18
Pac Dunes #6
Quail Hollow #14
Ridgewood C.C. (Center) #6
Riviera #10
Royal Melbourne (West) #10
TPC Boston #4
TPC River Highlands #15
TPC Scottsdale (Stadium) #17
Winged Foot #6

[Cliff Hamm]

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,43079.msg929231/#msg929231

[Jud_T]

sorry-should have caught it....

[JNC Lyon]

Garden City #1, Oak Hill East #14, and The Country Club #4 come to mind.  Also 3 at Pinehurst No. 2, though I have not played that one.

[Scott Warren]

"Links Magazine's First 20 Driveable Par 4s We Could Think Of"

[Scott Szabo]

Obvious omission - #7 at Sand Hills

[jim_lewis]

I don't think number 3 at Pinehurst #2 qualifies because it was extremely rare that anyone tried to drive. I don't think anyone tried during either Open. A few college kids have tried during the North South Amateur. Now that they have moved the championship tee back about 30 yards, I can't see anyone in their right mind trying, certainly not in competition.

I can't see 16 at Bandon Dunes being one of the"best" because I don't think it is a very good hole, period.

#10 at Merion is drivable only from the up tees for most humans, and then only in match play and only if you are desperate. Sucker play.

[JNC Lyon]

After watching the Walker Cup, I would conclude that Merion's 10th is very drivable.  I think the 10th is much better if drivability is an option.

[Simon Holt]

The only one that I disagree with on first hand experience is 18 at TOC.  I have played and seen a lot of golf there, some very good (seen!!), and I have only ever known that green driven a handful of times- which by definition I suppose makes it drivable but its hardly a regular occurance and certainly something I would never bet on us mere mortals ever doing.

Some other great ones on the list though!  I saw 10 at Riv for the first time in Feb and thought is was awesome.

[jeffwarne]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Simon,
I'd bet 18 at TOC is driven more often than 10 at Riviera

[Kyle Harris]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Umm....

[jeffwarne]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Umm....

as opposed to # 1 which requires a decision  on line,risk etc.

[Kyle Harris]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Umm....

as opposed to # 1 which requires a decision  on line,risk etc.

Isn't the selection of the line and what club to hit...

....strategy?

[jeffwarne]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Umm....

as opposed to # 1 which requires a decision  on line,risk etc.

Isn't the selection of the line and what club to hit...

....strategy?

No that's execution.

Strategy would be choosing where to hit it,
example #1 NGLA
Long iron right center (safest)
fairway wood at bunker on right near green, (shorter second but can lead to blind second)
Driver at green (can end up in road or cross bunkers-or lead to eagle putt).

In my opinion strategy involves a choice which might call for different club.
For a better player on #2(unless the wind is howling) the better player would only choose something other than driver because it was too much club, not out of fear or risk reward-the line would remain the same

[mark chalfant]

Zero holes from  Ireland or Continental  Europe.  No holes in the vast land mass between Pittsburgh and Arizona. No examples from  Ohio , Nebraska or Colorado.......  Ouch   C


CANADA was overllocked  entirely

[Kyle Harris]

Jeff,

Perhaps I am misinterpreting.

Didn't you say there was no strategy involved as it was just a question of line on #2?

If the player is choosing less club because Driver would be too much - isn't that out of fear?

Sorry, your definitions seem quite arbitrary and circumstantial. As in, "The hole isn't strategic under these circumstances (good player) but is under these (worse player, wind howling)."

What happens for a short hitter (under 250 yards) where Driver is almost categorically the club chosen off the tee... in your case - a particular skill (distance) seems to define whether or not a hole is "strategic."

[Ronald Montesano]

Remember that Links magazine is based on Hilton Head Island and the majority of the staff might not have actually played the requisite course list to truly script a thorough list of ... anything.

[Garland Bayley]

The only one that I disagree with on first hand experience is 18 at TOC.  I have played and seen a lot of golf there, some very good (seen!!), and I have only ever known that green driven a handful of times- which by definition I suppose makes it drivable but its hardly a regular occurance and certainly something I would never bet on us mere mortals ever doing.

Some other great ones on the list though!  I saw 10 at Riv for the first time in Feb and thought is was awesome.

If I remember my stories correctly, the 18th at TOC has been drivable like forever. Jack tried to drive it most of the time didn't he? He seldom took more than a three there as I recall. If the most you ever take is a 3 on a drivable par 4, then how can it be one of the best drivable par 4s in golf? Seems more likely to be one of the weakest drivable par 4s in golf.

[Anthony Gray]

  Cruden Bay 3 is a good hole. Blind then downhill to the green with a lack of width and ob. Could be more penel with a miss than the others.

  Anthony

[Simon Holt]

Isn't # 2 at National more a question of what club to hit?
Not a lot of strategy involved, just a question of line.

Simon,
I'd bet 18 at TOC is driven more often than 10 at Riviera

Jeff,

I am in agreement with that for sure- again based on pros rather than the regular golfer.  I just loved the feel of 10 at Riviera.  How long is it off the members tee?

At TOC the Open tee which is right next to the path at the back right of the 17th green probably gives them a better angle.  I have got up once from there downwind.  The famous caddy line that we used to call Jimmy Reid's fast track is right down the fence as the lading area is narrow, hard, banked iin towards to green and has less buried elephants than the middle of the fairway.

Garland-

yes Jack has been driving it for a while.  I believe he has won 18 majors....   Seriously, a lot of the pros can drive it but anyone reading that list to then go to TOC and tell their caddy they are going to have a go at the green??...the caddy would make a lot betting they just get over Granny Clark's Wynd.

[Ronald Montesano]

From an archie standpoint, there is little hazard on 18 at Old Course to deter the golfer with driver in hand.  It is possible to pull it into fairway one or go wide right onto golf place with a slice (for righties).  The setting, the citizens milling around, the valley of sin, all make it a candidate for "best" under someone's definition.

[Gary Slatter]

I much prefer to call them "short par fours" as 95% of golfers cannot drive them!

[Mike_Clayton]

10 at The Belfry.

If you don't take a driver it's a 7 iron off the tee.
It has produced some great shots - mostly by Seve - but in the best 18?
4 at Barnbougle is miles better - and the Melbourne sandbelt has more than a handful of great drivable par fours.
Out of sight out of mind however.

[Tim Martin]

#1 at Westchester CC West. Great fun to watch the pros on this hole.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

Perhaps I am misinterpreting.

Didn't you say there was no strategy involved as it was just a question of line on #2?

If the player is choosing less club because Driver would be too much - isn't that out of fear?

Sorry, your definitions seem quite arbitrary and circumstantial. As in, "The hole isn't strategic under these circumstances (good player) but is under these (worse player, wind howling)."

What happens for a short hitter (under 250 yards) where Driver is almost categorically the club chosen off the tee... in your case - a particular skill (distance) seems to define whether or not a hole is "strategic."

Kyle,
I'm saying for anyone who plays competitively, it's a par 3. (a damn harrd one)
Played the hole 25 times and I've never seen anyone not aim at the green.

By your wide definition any par 3 over 180 is a driveable par four for a higher handicap/short hitter.


My point is, if you simply go for the green every time, and never consider any other option, or line, it's generally not considered a great driveable par 4 by the treehouse.
 I like the hole(all 18 at NGLA are great), and I think such holes have their place in golf,(the GB & I is liitered with them) but to me picking the line is a tactic, not a strategy.( either your memory or your caddie's skill) Strategey would be deciding where to go,what angle to take etc., which might change from day to day for pin position or confidence.
In fact I think such holes fill a gap in architecture due to equipment gains. You just rarely see a par 3 these days that is long enough for pros to hit drive or 3 wood (yet not ridiculously punitive)
And no, over # 2 is not scary at all, in fact it's an easy shot to a green facing you, so people hit less than driver to conrol their distance the same as you would on a par three that was less than full driver.
I don't think anyone hits driver there because over is scary. (it's only scary as in it's not on and therefore the wrong club)

It's a particularly awkward hole for the high hdcp(or very short) amateur who has to hit his second shot from a hole at an awkward angle.